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Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by codazoda on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:04AM (#35274085)
Ford recalled 18 vehicles. It knew exactly which ones had the problem. Pretty interesting.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by consp on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:32AM (#35274510)
Had a similar issue with another other Ford vehicle with a battery, there were 729 vehicles worldwide. They knew exactly what was wrong: error in a temperature sensor of a specific welding unit which which could result in a damaged busbar over time due to the poor weld. The vehicles were worldwide, mine was originally from Germany but that causes issues: I never received an email/mail from anyone as it went to the original dealer which did not know me. I did get a warning though the local DMV equivalent so that worked correctly but by then it was already fixed as I read the ford service site from time-to-time.

Was replaced without cost as with this thing, no questions asked. Though the garage failed to bleed the cooling system (they said they did, but you can see if they did it in the Ford online systems, they didn't), resulting in the vehicle stopping once an air bubble reached the coolant pump and it overrotated (it will run for about 30 seconds before stopping).

In my case this also means I got a new battery after two years which is nice, but Ford probably tried to talk their way out of it thus it taking so long. If it's not a fire hazard it goes slowly ...

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by kubectl_h on Thursday March 23, 2023 @10:08AM (#35275051)
When I bought my truck (used, from a non-Ford dealer) I immediately signed up for a ford.com account and registered my truck with them. I've received all recalls and "customer satisfaction program" notifications from them since. I also had the truck routinely serviced at a few different dealerships until I found one that seemed no-frills and have used them ever since. Whenever I take the truck in for an oil change they will check for a pending TSB and ask if I want it done.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by cptskippy on Thursday March 23, 2023 @12:53PM (#35277606)
My experience with Nissan is they will do the former, but dealerships will not do the later. With Honda it was the opposite, the dealership would always ask to perform repairs I had no knowledge of.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by bragadiru_mafia on Thursday March 23, 2023 @10:10AM (#35275082)
The Kuga plugin hybrid? Very nice vehicle.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by Neil44 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:09AM (#35274163)
I've toured a couple of car plants because I find them really interesting - Porsche, Mini - the level of refinement, sophistication and tracability of their ERP is always staggering.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by jillesvangurp on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:29AM (#35274461)
This is pretty common in industries like this. In the aviation industry, manufacturers record the tension with which each screw is torqued. That kind of fine grained logging is required for maintenance reasons and audited in case of e.g. accidents. Some modern car manufacturers use a similar level of detail in their manufacturing records. Common in both worlds is having very complex supply networks and just in time deliveries for these parts.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by KineticLensman on Thursday March 23, 2023 @12:32PM (#35277311)
> This is pretty common in industries like this. In the aviation industry

I remember reading an account of the Space Shuttle Columbia accident investigation, where it was stated the investigation was hampered by the lack of serial numbers on some components, such as the astronauts' chairs. This made it hard to reconstruct the breakup sequence from the geographical distribution of the debris.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by koofdoof on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:20AM (#35274330)
Do you need special connections to tour one? I would love to go, but I assume it would be difficult as a member of the public.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by sho_hn on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:31AM (#35274502)
At Mercedes-Benz we offer factory tours you can just sign up for. Agree with OP, well worth it!

Developing and iteratively refining a production line from pilot factory to network scale is not entirely unlike software development.

Here's a few clips of a modern one, including a longer doc:

https://youtu.be/UdDvDKC8FVM & https://youtu.be/TWLyRQbvr6o

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by Kon-Peki on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:28AM (#35274438)
You can tour the Ford River Rouge truck factory, which is where they make the F-150 and F-150 Lightning:

https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/ford-rouge-factory-tour/h...

I went on a tour of the VW Dresden factory back when it produced the Phaeton and Bentley Continental. It looks like they currently produce the ID.3 there and are still doing tours:

https://www.glaesernemanufaktur.de/en/your-visit/our-tours.h...

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by ketkev on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:23AM (#35274374)
I believe Volkswagen's Wolfsburg factory is open for tours
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by Neil44 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @11:04AM (#35275929)
Anyone can sign up for the Porsche factory in Stuttgart, Germany or the MINI plant in Oxford UK, there are probably many others too. Stuttgart is really dominated by Porsche and Mercedes-Benz, there's an giant M-B star on the town's big clock tower. It's a very business-y town but a nice visit for a car nut.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @11:38AM (#35276473)
While I was an exchange student in Germany, my cohort got a tour of an Audi factory.

That was 23 years ago, though.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by xattt on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:28AM (#35274447)
Also interesting but pure speculation is that you probably can extrapolate sales and delivery numbers up to the point of the recall.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by londons_explore on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:18AM (#35274295)
If I were designing a production line, every step of the process would record video footage of every part being made, tested, and fitted.

Then, if any quality issue is identified, the footage can be checked to see exactly which cells that went into which cars were faulty.

It's far quicker to check 30 seconds of video to verify that a worker remembered to tighten some critical bolts than to recall the car and have a service technician pull the whole thing apart to find that this car was fine after all.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by sbradford26 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:37AM (#35274578)
Processes like that work for bespoke things like the mars rovers and satellites. But for a mass produced product you will quickly run into a scale and storage issue. Ford is planning on making 150000 F150 Lightnings so around 400+ per day. With ever step expected to be completed in a couple minutes you are going to have to track tens of thousands of videos clips per day and store and archive them. Then for recall work you will have store the videos for around 15 years. The cost to maintain all of that infrastructure and storage is most likely not worth it.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by thakoppno on Thursday March 23, 2023 @10:35AM (#35275471)
> The cost to maintain all of that infrastructure and storage is most likely not worth it.

Your analysis is likely correct; but at the same time, a system like this has never been more affordable, possible.

Also, imagine getting a video of your brand new car’s construction at the time of purchase.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by sbradford26 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @10:42AM (#35275589)
So Ford is providing pictures for people who ordered Ford Broncos currently. And for a method of keeping customers interested in the vehicle they ordered I think it is a really good tactic.

https://www.motor1.com/news/542024/ford-bronco-assembly-line...

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by detrites on Thursday March 23, 2023 @10:48AM (#35275663)
I wonder how well some kind of bespoke batch-processing video codec would work on production line footage where the endless repeats of the same mechanical motions continue for hours and across days/weeks? Encode only the difference between cycles.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by specialist on Thursday March 23, 2023 @11:17AM (#35276177)
Just store the diffs.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by dylan604 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @02:01PM (#35278787)
just store the one cycle and repeat it. nobody will know the diff
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by Kirby64 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @11:01AM (#35275878)
This doesn't address soft failures, though. What if the worker didn't fully tighten them to spec but did partially tighten them? What if the bolt was cross-threaded, how could you tell from a video? The amount of camera angles and quality of cameras needed to actually make these calls seems like it would be nigh-impossible.

The data-to-noise ratio of video is pretty bad (most of it going to be wasted on data for... the factory floor or whatever), compared to something like logging the torque of every bolt on the line (which, they already do in some situations).

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by LeifCarrotson on Thursday March 23, 2023 @11:33AM (#35276402)
Controls engineer who's designed several production lines for tier 1 automotive suppliers and a couple for OEMs reporting in... you'd be wrong, video footage is kind of useless, because you can't query it automatically.

Instead, our PLCs (programmable logic controllers) report to in-line vehicle sequencing databases. Every step of the process is logged to ILVS, and - unlike our work with furniture or consumer goods manufacturers - that is the only thing they care about. It doesn't matter if you can see that there's a physical assembly with properly torqued bolts that we've delivered to Ford's loading docks, we only get paid if the torques are correctly recorded for that serial number in ILVS. Each line tracks each part with serialized 2D barcodes. Any time a measurement is made or an operation is performed, the PLC will trigger an upload to record that data in ILVS, whether that's a barcode quality grade of the 2D scanner camera, or a force measured to drive a clip in, or a temperature measured while setting a heat stake, or the current drawn by a sensor, or...anything. For jellyroll battery winders I've done, that will include obvious stuff like Hipot test results but also minutiae like the row and column and stack height in the tray that transfers the jellyroll between the winding machine and the pack assembly machine.

This sort of database provides not only recall protections, but also ANOVA gauge reliability and repeatability to retain control over the process, and predictive maintenance to know when a machine or mold is wearing and causing a trend in the measured data (even if it's all within acceptable tolerance).

If I was recording bolt torques that were manually driven by a human (rather than a robot), I'd probably use a wireless electronic torque wrench with a UWB RFID tag on the socket (or some discrete tags on the jig) to verify that you'd reached the appropriate torque at the appropriate location. You'd be able to automatically query the database for the barcode of the assembly with any data that came with its forming/casting/other production data, the lot ID of the bolt, the calibration source of the wrench, the employee ID, the time and date that it was torqued, how much time it took the operator to torque each bolt, and on and on.

We do still have video cameras pointing at our machine recording to a ~1 week circular buffer, but that's more so that we can reconstruct the sequence of events that led to a machine fault.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by derivagral on Thursday March 23, 2023 @12:34PM (#35277324)
> you can't query it automatically

Considering the more interesting applications would likely have barcodes, couldn't this be done with modern recognition and tagging?

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by HeyLaughingBoy on Thursday March 23, 2023 @06:33PM (#35282349)
Now you have to make sure that the camera has line of sight to the barcode!
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by londons_explore on Thursday March 23, 2023 @01:22PM (#35278101)
video recordings would be in addition to what you've said, to catch things that nobody thought to record or check...

Things like "we've had a high number of complaints of wind noise in cars from the front right door seal, but only those made on the night shift".

Then you check the footage and see the worker is stretching the seal while pushing it on, breaking it slightly, and then it fails a few weeks later.

You never thought to have a database field for 'number of newtons of stretch force while putting seal on'... But the video can explain it...

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by CodeWriter23 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:47AM (#35274734)
Barcodes containing batch or unique serial numbers (laser etching is common in auto part supply chains), along with good manufacturing records is how the scope of a recall such as this is contained.

In the food industry, a portion of cGMP (Current Good Manufacturing Practice) covers traceability. Not sure what the practice is called in the Auto Industry but I’m sure raw material tracing is a part of their practice.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by icegreentea2 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @09:54AM (#35274838)
Yes. It's not just Ford which had good records here, their battery vendor must have had great tracking to limit the blast radius so much.

Though potentially they just all got lucky and caught a problem early enough that most units with the problem batteries haven't left Ford control yet.

Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by CodeWriter23 on Thursday March 23, 2023 @06:09PM (#35281999)
Of course, the supplier would have to have some SOPs to say how to make the assemblies and then a QA department to catch the Deviation and write it up.
Re:F-150 Lightning Recall Due to SK Cells by guestbest on Thursday March 23, 2023 @02:14PM (#35278990)
Every electric truck has a centralized computer that calls home for ‘updates’ with a GPS. Pretty simple