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Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by larsiusprime on Friday March 17, 2023 @05:33PM (#35203206)
Godot is no threat at all to Unreal, at the high end of AAA development you really need the dialed-in horsepower of either an in-house engine, or something like Unreal, which has been increasingly consolidating market share over the last decade.

Godot competes squarely with mid-market stuff: Indie, so-called "Triple-I" (high budget """indie""") and AA development, where Unity is the dominant engine. Unity has very little penetration share among the big AAA games.

Godot and other open source engines squeeze Unity from the bottom, and Unreal squeezes it from the top.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by lovehashbrowns on Friday March 17, 2023 @05:42PM (#35203299)
Particularly when it comes to 2D games development! Fracturing that space is far more beneficial for Unreal than it is for Unity. Unreal, at least from my understanding, is awful for 2D. I'm playing around with 2D game development in Unity now and it's insanely easy to get started. I think the same goes for Godot where 2D dev work is a first-class citizen.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by simonebrunozzi on Friday March 17, 2023 @05:41PM (#35203297)
Given you seem to know a lot about this, what's the main reason why Unreal is great at high end AAA, while Unity is not?
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by dbrueck on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:25PM (#35203692)
I'm a daily user of UE but not a game dev, so my perspective might be skewed, but nearly everything in UE targets high end dev (even the clunky parts, haha). The materials and rendering stuff are stellar, but also things like their asset pipeline and content workflows all have a "big project" vibe.

Sometimes the complexity of UE can be overwhelming. For example, if you're just trying to set up an AI-controlled actor to animate differently in some different states, you'll initially be frustrated by the gazillion bits of setup work you have to do. But in every case I've seen, that complexity exists to support the flexibility and richness needed by top of the line games.

Basically, for better and for worse, UE was written by and is used by people who have built, shipped, and supported AAA games.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by pdntspa on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:19PM (#35203639)
Personally I think it is because it has terrible performance. Scenes that Unreal seems to be able to render at full frame rates run at a fraction of that in Unity. Even its vaunted 2D system is slow as balls... load times for Graveyard Keeper, as an example, are agonizingly long. And for what? A hundred megabytes at most of 2D pixel-art assets? What is the engine doing with all that time? Certainly not just loading and decompressing shit into RAM.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by cdchn on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:37PM (#35203826)
Reminds me of the unnecessarily long GTA Online loading times that were a result of parsing a giant JSON file. Is it really worth blaming the engine when maybe its the game doing something improper?
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by pdntspa on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:55PM (#35203985)
Maybe, and I don't know the details. I just have a hard time seeing how something like Graveyard Keeper doesn't load nearly instantly.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by omoikane on Friday March 17, 2023 @08:45PM (#35204832)
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by floydnoel on Friday March 17, 2023 @05:54PM (#35203414)
Epic has shipped first-party AAA games with Unreal. Unity has not done so. They had a planned release (of a high quality first party title) but have more recently cancelled it.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by squeaky-clean on Friday March 17, 2023 @07:27PM (#35204249)
Unity also had a collaborative open source game project and canned that. And an example multiplayer FPS, but canned it because the UI, scene loading, and networking layers were all implemented using custom code and not the Unity built in equivalents. They had a 4 player multiplayer co-op game demo that they abandoned. Many of their demo projects where they promised to release source code, and they didn't deliver on that (a few of them they did deliver on but specifically under a license that allows no asset or code re-use).

Studios have made some great games with Unity. But the company Unity themselves have no idea how to finish a game, or even make one using stock unity. Even if they can't use current stock unity, they never bring their custom code into the mainline engine releases...

And I'm making these complaints as someone who exclusively uses Unity for their own hobby games. I really ought to give Godot a try, I just have so much personal experience using Unity (and working around their engine) that the idea of learning a new engine is daunting.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by maccard on Friday March 17, 2023 @07:10PM (#35204103)
I've worked on a few "high end" games, and used to work for Epic.

Epic dogfoods the engine with _real_ games. Fortnite, Paragon, Battle Breakers, Robo Recall are all titles written in UE4, by Epic, which have had active contributions to the engine in their development. Whether you like the game or not doesn't have much of a bearing on the impact the game has on the engine.

They did the same with older games too, and the remnants of games like UT and GoW are very visible in the source of the engine itself.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by Arelius on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:42PM (#35205832)
Also, the incentives are real.

Unity, generally makes money by convincing more people that they could make video games, and keeping up that belief so they keep paying for versions or subscription fees.

Epic only makes money after games have actually shipped.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by maccard on Saturday March 18, 2023 @08:46AM (#35208647)
That's not actually true, the royalty only license for Unreal only started with UE4, and there is still "contact us" licensing available too.

On the unity side, an increasing amount of their revenue comes from "grow solutions" [0] which is basically their ad networks. Game engine development is a funny business

[0] https://www.gamesindustry.biz/unity-posts-first-profitable-q...

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by Arelius on Saturday March 18, 2023 @06:53PM (#35214011)
It's not exactly true, but the incentives still align in practice.

"Contact Us" Licensing has always existed as you state, but has often included the possibility of royalties, and even when it doesn't it's always been at the price ranges where shipping a game was more likely than not.

And in-fact, a problem with early Unreal licensing has been Epic's approach to support of "If it's not a problem in an Epic game, it's not our problem" Which has improved dramatically since changing their licensing model.

And regarding Unity, yes, their ad networks are becoming more important, but that still doesn't do as good a job at aligning incentives, but more importantly, Unity has 15+ years of development in a model with unaligned incentives, which when you're talking about technical decisions, those are really important.

And to be clear, I'm not arguing against the point that Epic being a game developer first is an important factor, I think it very much is, however I'm suggesting there are also other contributing factors.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by echelon on Friday March 17, 2023 @05:59PM (#35203464)
How long until every tech company pours massive and substantial investment into Godot to turn it into the Blender of AAA games and film? It's almost to the point now.

Amazon will ditch Lumberyard for Godot. They have deep interests in games as a part of their vision. Twitch, Luna, in house game studios, prime gaming, etc.

Apple will absolutely do it. They're building their own metaverse and VR. Although I'd also gamble on them acquiring Epic Games. Apple wants to own the future of content creation.

Google's significant investment in WebGPU is going to make Godot a more attractive platform. Google is indirectly contributing to this.

As Godot gains more and more mindshare and economic activity happening atop it, it will achieve the activation energy required to take on AAA rendering and workflows.

Companies will see Epic as a tax. And the entire world will be submitting patches to Godot. Godot is already spawning an ecosystem of support companies and console SDKs.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by riidom on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:20PM (#35203648)
The situation is a bit different, because Unreal and Unity are by far not so much of a money-milking PITA as Max & Maya are.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by Vt71fcAqt7 on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:02PM (#35203494)
>Amazon will ditch Lumberyard for Godot

They are using O3DE now, which actually seems better than godot for 3D at first glance. Only issue so far is there isn't much of a community.

Edit:

>Although I'd also gamble on them acquiring Epic Games.

That is never happening.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by _hypx on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:20PM (#35203650)
O3DE is just open sourced Lumberyard.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by Vt71fcAqt7 on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:36PM (#35203814)
I know, I was just pointing out that they have a better(?) open source engine already.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by objclxt on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:05PM (#35203521)
> Although I'd also gamble on [Apple] acquiring Epic Games

Given Tim Sweeney holds a controlling stake in Epic this seems like the least likely outcome.

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by filmgirlcw on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:01PM (#35205629)
>Although I'd also gamble on them acquiring Epic Games. Apple wants to own the future of content creation.

This will never ever happen. Ever.

I think it equally unlikely that Apple would invest in/adopt something like Godot. Modern Apple has a serious case of Not Invented Here syndrome and despite Godot being permissive, I don't see them adopting that. Instead, I think we'll see more investment at ARKit and Metal, even though the only people that take Metal seriously are people who have a financial incentive to build iOS games (no one has a financial incentive to support Metal-based macOS games and there is arguably no financial incentive to make macOS games at all).

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by phendrenad2 on Sunday March 19, 2023 @06:08AM (#35217566)
Considering most people still pay for Maya instead of using Blender, this reads like a fever dream.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by _hypx on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:19PM (#35203644)
That's worryingly close to the same story high-end Unix providers told about Linux. If there is an open source engine that does 99% of what a proprietary engine does, then it's very likely we won't see that proprietary engine last for much longer.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by RobotToaster on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:52PM (#35203963)
Worryingly?

Why would that be a bad thing?

Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by _hypx on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:52PM (#35205887)
It isn't. You read that wrong.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by phendrenad2 on Sunday March 19, 2023 @06:06AM (#35217556)
Yes and all of those high-end Unix providers went on to enjoy great success selling addons for the Linux kernel and ecosystem.
Re:Godot Arrives in the Epic Games Store by Groxx on Friday March 17, 2023 @09:47PM (#35205250)
Yeah, this is the real reason.

Godot doesn't compete with Unreal. It competes with their largest commercial competitor: Unity.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And when they want to "upgrade", Unreal is right there, and they already have an Epic account.