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Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by zdw on Saturday January 21, 2023 @12:43PM (#34468278)
There are already incidences of this:

The TV show Community is missing an episode on Netflix for some reason (edit: reason was Ken Jeong in what could be interpreted as blackface).

The IT Crowd is missing one in some geos because it was considered anti-Trans by some - that episode also has the unrelated and hilarious plot where Roy and Moss convince Jen that they're loaning her a "black box that holds the entire internet".

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by InvaderFizz on Saturday January 21, 2023 @12:47PM (#34468313)
That's sad. That internet black box plot line is one of the best known and most beloved about the series.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by legitster on Saturday January 21, 2023 @12:47PM (#34468312)
A couple of episodes of 30 Rock as well.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by Klonoar on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:58PM (#34469118)
Doesn’t Always Sunny have this issue as well?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by oliveshell on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:10PM (#34469248)
Yes [1], mostly the episodes that involve Kaitlin Olson's character, Dee Reynolds, who aspires to a career in comedy, herself inventing and portraying racially insensitive characters within the story of the show.

I'm not the type to rail against such things generally, but IMO it was unnecessary and misguided to remove these episodes: their humor came deliberately from how oblivious Dee was to the offensiveness of her act.

Indeed, her portrayals are usually immediately and explicitly critiqued by her fellow characters as being racist and insane.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/IASIP/comments/hflb6t/list_of_its_a...

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by legitster on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:11PM (#34469267)
This is somehow the most mindnumbing. It's a show about terrible people doing terrible things. Like, they can only display certain, acceptable, forms of terribleness?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by nickthegreek on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:01PM (#34469149)
I think about 4 or 5 episodes.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by birdyrooster on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:09PM (#34468595)
BBC is notorious for black face on their programs even in recent decades.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by werdnapk on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:04PM (#34469186)
The main character in Noel Fielding's Luxury Comedy is a black face, but do people honestly say any face painted in black is racist? Noel is clearly using a black face in his show for artistic reasons and isn't racist in the slightest... IMO.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by mdp2021 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:13PM (#34469282)
In fact, there had been censorship of the Mighty Boosh episode with "the Spirit of Jazz".
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by birdyrooster on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:41PM (#34470872)
In particular the one that frustrates me frequently is Mitchell and Webb. Why in **s name did they have to lean on blackface?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by at_a_remove on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:11PM (#34468609)
Mustn't forget tidying up the wrist-slitting in 13 Reasons Why.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by klyrs on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:32PM (#34468831)
Nor should we forget the social contagion risk of suicide

> After the series' release, a study published in the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry found that suicide among teenagers rose by 28.9% in the month after Netflix launched the show.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by rajin444 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:01PM (#34469151)
Nor should we forget to beware the man of one study.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by klyrs on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:33PM (#34469487)
Who's the "man" in this case? Not me. Not a man, and I see that study as a single data point associated with a single event. There are many studies on the social contagion effect of suicide, enough that it's worth considering the possible impact of how suicide is depicted in media.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by Sinidir on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:26PM (#34469417)
The Werther Effect is thoroughly studied effect. There are plenty of studies on the issue.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by ac29 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:06PM (#34469203)
While 28.9% sounds like a shocking number, it was only a few dozen additional deaths.

A few additional concerns with the paper:

-The authors made no effort to try and determine if any of the people who died had seen the show, or even had heard of it.

-Suicides were up the month before the show was released as well.

-In fact, suicides in that age group had been trending up for years according to their data, which is not mentioned in the discussion of results at all.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by zikduruqe on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:44PM (#34468966)
Or the SpongeBob SquarePants "Panty Raid" episode.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by gjsman-1000 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:28PM (#34469430)
There are some episodes like that where... like, I am against censorship in general especially considering the state of our world right now, but it is still weird to me that a cadre of writers thought that would be a good idea to make - and network executives agreed!
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by kawsper on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:50PM (#34469041)
The story about the pulled IT Crowd episode is covered here: https://screenrant.com/it-crowd-controversy-graham-linehan-a...
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by mdp2021 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:24PM (#34469388)
With a very heavy perspective. Among the recurrent signs, the following suffices:

> inviting laughter and derision toward the... community

No. Just finding an occasion for the selected direction in creativity. Which the writer of the article seems to want to make ideological, with the exception of one use of the expression "«cheap laugh»" (which, for that matter, may bring attention to the other "celebrated" subplot of "the elders of the Internet" - using the same perspective, it would be as if "making cheap laughs through a sort of "ableism"").

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by pxc on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:15PM (#34469941)
Nah dude. I recently re-watched the whole show, and while I liked certain parts of it... it's a very transphobic show. And it's not just that episode; that episode gets callbacks in future episodes all the time.

It's a mean spirited gag, and the mere fact of being transgender is the punch line, over and over. It sucks. It makes revisiting the show more cringey and less fun.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by mdp2021 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:27PM (#34470729)
Since you raised your doubts, I just re-watched it - series 3, episode 4. And I confirm the view.

The whole episode is about the clumsiness of living, consistently with the project idea ("the IT crowd", outcast specialists with little interface to the public, which is a mass of people thrown into some role "«not doing much work but constantly having affairs»" - confused humans -, with a link which is the portrait of incompetence trying to make a living - trying to live - into something she does not understand). All the characters do is "attempting", trying to fit a role. The difficulties of living roles could be a trigger for the development of the substory involving Douglas Reynholm and April (and the gender instrumental to that). The whole idea climaxes in the "collapse of civilization" when the "stakeholders", as "topmost layer of the role-players", are in front of the catastrophic loss of the Internet, and the "punchline from above" is that of Moss: «It really isn't that funny» - of course, because it is tragic.

While I could see that the "It's over" scene could be to some extent insensitive, given that the writers may have supposed that it would be something lived by a number in such group, it was instrumental to the fight scene, which is a consolidated topos. And the "victory" seems to be on the other side, since the "punchline from inside" is that of Douglas, which ends the episode crying, going "It's not the same!" (It's not the same without her, or him - as she was both the "other half" and the "pal"). So, not only I do not see a phobia, but on the contrary, I see the opposite message, towards seeing people for what they are, and to love that whatever they are (also since the premise of the whole is, as said, that they will be confused imperfect players) - Douglas could not and he is alone crying.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by lotsoweiners on Sunday January 22, 2023 @01:28AM (#34474951)
I don't recall the episode, been probably 10 years since I watched the show, but lots of things "suck" if you watch them through your 2023 eye. Whether a show came out in 1955 or 1999, I just enjoy it as a product of it's time.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by pxc on Monday January 23, 2023 @10:00AM (#34489527)
Definitely true. I'm not here to say that no one else can or should enjoy the show, or that it's unique in having aged poorly in some respects. But the problems with that episode and later ones (with are not entirely one note about Douglas' relationship with the transgender woman, despite the very painful fight scene and the overwhelming fact that being transgender is the punchline) are real and not made up, and I can understand why they'd be deeply uncomfortable to many people.

> Whether a show came out in 1955 or 1999, I just enjoy it as a product of it's time.

This is great when one can do it, and I think it's a fine approach. But of course, if you were gay in 1955 or trans in 1999, there's probably a lot of shows where certain issues— common enough at the time— would have really diminished your enjoyment and maybe even triggered some dysphoria, even 'at the time'.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by asddubs on Saturday January 21, 2023 @01:55PM (#34469099)
I mean, "was considered anti-Trans by some" is pretty charitable for that episode. It is pretty overtly anti-trans, and the show as a whole was written by grahan linnehan who has also been vocally anti-trans
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by mdp2021 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:35PM (#34469515)
A very "semantically open" use of 'anti-', as some may be surprised to know that there are people who watched that episode and did not judge it the least deprecatory towards any category.

"I mean", as if Douglas Reynholm (the "phobic" - finally, a literal case - in the episode) was drawn as an exemplary character, a model of a human being... "I mean II", I checked on a search engine for the spelling, and the first under-link stub that resulted is «Douglas Reynholm was an incredibly arrogant, self-righteous, pompous, cruel and elitist egomaniac who considered himself to be somewhat above everybody else. He viewed women as objects to feel and manipulate to his incredible sexual mania»...

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by gjsman-1000 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:31PM (#34469472)
The classic issue with censorship. "I don't enjoy it, therefore, nobody should be allowed to enjoy it. And I won't be happy until nobody else can enjoy it. If you enjoy it, that makes you <insert moral judgement here>. And because I am not that, and nobody who is <insert moral judgement here> is for that content, it should be removed."

Now... I will admit, it isn't always wrong (CP). But it often is the fruit of an unwitting narcissism.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by pcthrowaway on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:38PM (#34469551)
The person you're engaging with wasn't making an argument about whether it should be censored, just that the pulled episode was clearly anti-trans
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by mdp2021 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:52PM (#34469676)
There is also a possibility that the poster subtly willingly replaced 'anti-' with "[all that in actual evidence from this side appears is that apparently,] you don't enjoy it", and on that basis returned to (an argument about) the original point of censorship.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by gnarbarian on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:17PM (#34469322)
so don't watch it.

with censorship nobody can watch it.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by zeroonetwothree on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:46PM (#34469617)
Right, why is it I can stream Hitler's speeches as much as I want, but this one episode is apparently too dangerous?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by gnarbarian on Saturday January 21, 2023 @09:34PM (#34473584)
we are beset with tiny Hitlers wielding small amounts of power in every organization.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by garbagecoder on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:24PM (#34469393)
That’s not an instance of the Ministry of Truth. My brother in Christ, that’s a corporation doing that.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by Spooky23 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:38PM (#34469554)
* * *
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by klipklop on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:34PM (#34469511)
I bought a copy of ‘Tropic Thunder’ for exactly this reason. One day it will be pulled from all streaming platforms due to RDJ playing a black man.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by yellow_lead on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:51PM (#34469658)
There really isn't another movie like tropic thunder Imo
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by Gemoto on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:59PM (#34469764)
I mean it's tropic thunder. What would be really lost here?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by mdp2021 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:44PM (#34470901)
Some academicians insist in seeing Art even in "popular" works. But also beside that, well, you would lose a popular work - if somebody did it, they probably "put something in it".
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by TheCondor on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:00PM (#34469773)
That episode of Community also explicitly referred to the black face as a "hate crime." I don't think it's so much a matter of interpretation as that was the direct gag they were going for.

Do we know who actually pulled the content? Netflix clearly doesn't have a policy against streaming partial amount of content when they can't get it all from a provider but it's not clear to me if Netflix pulled a single episode of Community or if the licensers maybe refused to license that episode. I think I read that Sony was supportive of the episode being pulled.

I think most of this content will come back once the industry as a whole sort of figures out the positioning. There are something the creators are embarrassed by and it might never come back but I expect there to be a new rating or something similar (Disney+ does this already) where they'll indicate before the media plays that it may be offensive or insensitive. News shows do this when covering certain types of crimes.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by kingforaday on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:00PM (#34469775)
I wonder if the reverse is true. Anyone remember the Wayans Bros. Movie "White Chicks"?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by maxwell on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:11PM (#34469907)
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by ethbr0 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:52PM (#34470380)
My overriding memory of Shawn and Marlon Wayans will always be an MTV Movie Awards (or some such) from the 90s, where they were hosting.

Some smart-ass comic gets up on the stage and leads with "I always said you were the two talented ones in the family."

Ouch. And double-ouch at the big laugh it got from the audience.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by dehrmann on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:24PM (#34470058)
How can you forget the bit with Terry Crews singing Thousand Miles?
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by selimthegrim on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:01PM (#34469784)
Frank Zappa's albums had one particular song removed from their track list on Google's search results.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by cbm-vic-20 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:16PM (#34469954)
If a streaming service is concerned about this, instead of dissappearing an episode, they could put a disclaimer slide at the beginning: "<Streaming Service> does not approve of the views made within this episode. Click <here> to skip to the next episode."
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by TMWNN on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:24PM (#34470054)
I've heard that the official clips of Saturday Night Live on YouTube are routinely posted with edits in which significant chunks are excised for "problematic" jokes, without any notice.
Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by anigbrowl on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:11PM (#34470581)
The IT Crowd is missing one in some geos because it was considered anti-Trans by some

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this one; though I don't think the ep should be removed, it is in poor taste and arguably defeats its own comic intentions. I suspect the deeper objection is not to the content per se but how it reads in the context of Graham Linehan subsequently aligning himself as a massive transphobe and making it into a political cause.

I don't know Linehan personally, but grew up near him and followed his career since long before he went into television, when he was writing film and TV reviews in an alt-weekly paper for beer money. He has always been a comic genius, able to turn excruciating social pain into hilarious farce, while also being willing to cheer on success. I remember he once opened a movie review for a film called Eat the Peach with 'At last, an Irish movie that does not make me want to run to the toilets and lick all four walls.'

That kind of self-criticality and emotional nakedness has deep roots in the Irish identity, and it is what makes Roy, an Irish man working for an incomprehensible and irrational corporation in London, such a compelling character. I find the show especially entertaining because I've been that person, doing that exact job, working for those kind of companies in London, often under bosses like Jen or Denholm/Douglas Reynholm. Linehan's character portraits, even for a single episode or scene, are incredibly sharp and truthful. In The Work Outing, where Roy and Moss unwillingly accompany Jen to the theater, there's a scene where Jerome, an extroverted PR guy, is introduced to Roy & Moss. No sooner has Roy diffidently said hello than Jerome exclaims 'Oh my god you're Irish! I love Irish people! They're all mad aren't they! They're just mad!' and the exchange spirals downward into cringe. The whole episode is a comic masterpiece, but this brief scene has a special place in my heart as I've had that conversation hundreds of times in my life.

In this scene but also in general, the engine of comedy is the mismatch between characters who are quirky and self-conscious (like Roy and Jen) and those who are quirky but oblivious (like Moss, Douglas Reynholm, and here, Jerome). When characters go against their 'natural' type they get punished in hilarious ways, by being stuck with the baggage of their transgression which then multiplies itself exponentially. The plot frame for this episode is that Jen tries to be oblivious in pursuit of a date with another oblivious-seeming person, who turns out to be even more painfully self-aware than she is. As in all restorative comedies, the characters who transgress end up feeling worse but wiser, nothing really bad happens, and everything returns to normal.

In The Speech (the 'banned' episode), hopelessly insensitive CEO Douglas Reynholm meets an attractive lady journalist, April, and romance blossoms. Despite her repeated advisories that she used to be a man, Douglas thinks he's found the perfect woman who not just tolerates but admires and enjoys his shallow hyper-masculinity, sharing and even exceeding his love of bad action movies, heavy drinking, and competitive sports. But gradually reality gets through even his dense skull and he ends the relationship - briefly taking responsibility for the situation, before reverting to type and deflecting blame back onto April. Mutual recriminations quickly escalate into a fist fight straight out of a bad action movie, with Douglas wins - thereby regaining his 'boss' status - by knocking April out. He is subsequently shown as being vilified in the press and sobbing over the loss of his erstwhile companion, with whom he was actually compatible.

(Roy, Moss, and Jen are relegated to the less-important plot frame story in this episode, which sets up but is peripheral to the emotional conflict of the main story. In dramatic and thriller forms, the emotional conflict sets up but is peripheral to the main plot action; John Wick is the purest distillation of this.)

The Speech breaks two comedy rules in that the climactic suffering is not just emotional but physical, and something really bad does happen (the knockout). While it's implied that April recovers (going on to write a negative magazine article about Douglas) and Douglas actually feels bad, the comedically awkward social conflict of incongruous gender expectations crosses a line into physical violence which writers normally avoid. The violence is also intense; while this is meant to parody the bad action movies both Douglas and April enjoy, most comedy violence involves characters either flailing around, missing their punches, and blundering into the furniture or escalating quickly to absurd extremes like explosions or natural disasters. Though there are multiple comic touches in the fight scene, it's choreographed as a conventional aggressive fistfight, with a lot of punches to the head in both directions.

This was a bit too close to reality for a lot of people, because transgender women do suffer a disproportionate amount of physical violence up to and including murder, and this often takes place in the context of relationships. Perpetrators often defend themselves in court by insisting that they were deceived by a transgender romantic or sexual partner and acted violently out of fear and panic, which many find wildly implausible. Complaints gradually mounted over a 12 year period and in 2020 the UK broadcaster of the show announced they were dropping the episode from reruns.

Graham Linehan, who wrote and directed the episode, reacted badly, announced he was cutting ties with the broadcaster (after years of fruitful partnership), and went on a vicious tirade on social which eventually led to the suspension of his Twitter account - strangely parallel to the trajectory of the fictional Douglas. Rather than compromising or de-escalating, he raised it to the level of a political issue asserting that his civil rights (of free speech) were under attack and going on to attack transgender people in general in the most vituperative terms. In the context of an ongoing trend of escalating violence towards trans people (nearly doubling in the last year) his increasingly strident position has alienated a great many of his former fans.

Re:My Husband Was Right About DVDs All Along by inchley on Saturday January 21, 2023 @10:57PM (#34474093)
> Rather than compromising or de-escalating, he raised it to the level of a political issue asserting that his civil rights (of free speech) were under attack

Curiously, in doing so, Linehan chanced upon an actual civil rights movement, of women losing single-sex spaces to males who choose to identify as women, and started championing this instead.

Though, many gender critical feminists find Graham's unasked-for presence in their activism rather embarrassing and irritating due to his generally quite aggressive behavior and his occasional bouts of sexism.