News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Endless Horse by sam_goody on Thursday December 29, 2022 @05:56PM (#34179233)
A horse, you see, has an infinite number of legs.

It has two hind legs, aside from its fourlegs.

Which means it has six legs.

Now six is an even number, so it must have an even number of legs.

But six is an odd number of legs for a horse to have, so it has an odd number of legs.

The only number that is both odd an even is infinity. Since a horse has both an odd an even number of legs, it must have infinite legs.

But there is one horse, that not only has an infinite number of legs, it has legs that are infinitely long.

And here it is!

Re:Endless Horse by throwaway1777 on Thursday December 29, 2022 @06:01PM (#34179291)
My brain hurts
Re:Endless Horse by sigmonsays on Thursday December 29, 2022 @06:29PM (#34179540)
well if there is two horses...
Re:Endless Horse by ARandomerDude on Thursday December 29, 2022 @07:57PM (#34180283)
Perhaps a large, wooden badger.
Re:Endless Horse by sandworm101 on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:07PM (#34180349)
Zero is both odd and even. Horses do not have legs.
Re:Endless Horse by gweinberg on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:11PM (#34180384)
Umm, zero is even. Zero is not odd.
Re:Endless Horse by klyrs on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:43PM (#34180702)
If you draw a zero centered on the origin, it describes a two-valued function y = ±sqrt(1-x^2) which is odd. Zero is odd if you really really REALLY want it to be.
Re:Endless Horse by ffhhj on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:08PM (#34180353)
What is also infinite to scroll and is expelled by horses?
Re:Endless Horse by Waterluvian on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:08PM (#34180360)
And the infinite-legged horse said, “I can’t stand sitting, so I need a hand standing.”
Re:Endless Horse by layer8 on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:08PM (#34180363)
> The only number that is both odd an even is infinity.

That doesn’t seem correct: https://math.stackexchange.com/a/49046/429295

Re:Endless Horse by marzell on Thursday December 29, 2022 @09:04PM (#34180878)
infinity is not a number.
Re:Endless Horse by layer8 on Thursday December 29, 2022 @09:09PM (#34180923)
It is a transfinite ordinal number, and the linked text explains how "even" and "odd" are defined for those.
Re:Endless Horse by thaumasiotes on Friday December 30, 2022 @01:09AM (#34182362)
"Infinity is a transfinite ordinal number" is a lot more definitive of a claim than you can justify making. There are different systems and they use different infinite quantities. Nonstandard analysis doesn't bother with ordinal numbers, but it has plenty of infinite numbers.

"Infinity" without further specification seems more likely to refer to the concept in the extended reals (where there are exactly two infinite numbers) than to refer to the concept of infinite ordinal numbers. The obvious analysis would appear to be that, not being an integer, it cannot be considered either even or odd, but there might be a convention I don't know about.

Re:Endless Horse by layer8 on Friday December 30, 2022 @09:10AM (#34185121)
Since most reals are not either even and odd, I don’t know why you find the extended reals the more likely interpretation of “infinity” in the context of that question. In any case, the GGP objected to infinity being a number, but however you slice it, it is either an ordinal or cardinal number. And the GGGGP claimed that infinity is both even and odd, but however you slice it, it is at most one of those. I found it being either even or odd, as in the ordinals, more interesting, that’s why I gave that link.
Re:Endless Horse by thaumasiotes on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:30PM (#34192383)
> I don’t know why you find the extended reals the more likely interpretation of “infinity” in the context of that question.

Simple, that's the only sense of "infinity" that most people know.

Re:Endless Horse by nigamanth on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:37AM (#34182819)
Is it? To me it's more like a concept.
Re:Endless Horse by Zecc on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:10AM (#34183017)
On the other hand, typeof NaN === 'number'
Re:Endless Horse by ketanmaheshwari on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:19PM (#34180464)
What does this mean? Could someone please clarify what this prose / poem means or what is the author's intention? Going completely over my head.
Re:Endless Horse by michaelnoguera on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:43PM (#34180696)
The author has devised a logical argument based off drawing equivalences between similar sounding words ("forelegs" vs "four legs"). The absurdity of the conclusion that a horse has infinite legs and the novelty of the invalid leaps in reasoning makes the story humorous.
Re:Endless Horse by jdkee on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:47PM (#34180736)
A mare has four (4) legs.

But no mare, meaning there is not any mare such that it has five (5) legs.

Thus the cardinality of "no mare" > the cardinality of "mare".

Re:Endless Horse by akiselev on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:48PM (#34180744)
It's a series of misspellings, puns, and tortured logic.

> It has two hind legs, aside from its fourlegs.

Hind legs are the opposite of forelegs so the statement is true but misspelled, and [---tortured logic here---] two hind legs plus "four" forelegs totals to six legs.

> Which means it has six legs... Now six is an even number, so it must have an even number of legs... But six is an odd number of legs for a horse to have, so it has an odd number of legs.

Six is an even number but it's "odd" - as in strange - for a horse to have six legs so horses [---tortured logic here---] must also have an odd - as in mathematical - number of legs.

> The only number that is both odd an even is infinity. Since a horse has both an odd an even number of legs, it must have infinite legs.

Infinity is a complicated "number" with different interpretations and [---tortured pure math here---] if you stretch some of them to the breaking point, the only horse that can have both an "even" and an "odd" number of legs is one that "must have infinite legs"

> But there is one horse, that not only has an infinite number of legs, it has legs that are infinitely long.

This plays on the ambiguity of "infinite legs" which could mean an "infinite number of legs" or "infinitely long legs".

All in all, thumbs up. Cost me some cherry switches thanks to projectile tea.

Re:Endless Horse by thaumasiotes on Friday December 30, 2022 @12:42AM (#34182204)
> Infinity is a complicated "number" with different interpretations and [---tortured pure math here---] if you stretch some of them to the breaking point, the only horse that can have both an "even" and an "odd" number of legs is one that "must have infinite legs"

I am not aware of this math; can you elaborate? In pretty much any system, there is no number that is both even and odd, and including infinite quantities in the system doesn't change that.

Re:Endless Horse by naet on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:11AM (#34182686)
Infinity is an infinitely high number. What is Infinity plus one? It must still be Infinity, since it's already infinitely high and can't go any higher.

But if you have an odd number and add one, you get an even number (and vice versa). For Infinity = Infinity + 1 to hold true, Infinity must be both odd and even.

Or something like that. It's probably more accurate to say Infinity is neither odd nor even. If you add 2+2+2+2... up to infinity, it might appear even. But that could also be equivalent to 1+3+1+3+1... to infinity, which would be alternating even and odd. Or 1+2+2+2+2... which would always be odd.

Infinite quantities bend or break a lot of typical rules that other rational numbers follow.

Re:Endless Horse by Swizec on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:07AM (#34183000)
If I remember my college set theory correctly, this is because there are infinite infinities.

2+2+2+… is a different infinity than 2+1+2+1+…

You can construct infinite sets of numbers that do not overlap. Odd vs. Even infinity is the example our professor used in class to show the concept. I don’t remember enough to replicate here.

Re:Endless Horse by greggertt on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:56AM (#34183271)
Wow way to kill the enjoyment of a nonsense verse
Re:Endless Horse by Swizec on Friday December 30, 2022 @06:00AM (#34183916)
Nah the verse was wonderful, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Re:Endless Horse by thaumasiotes on Friday December 30, 2022 @06:28AM (#34184078)
In the ordinal-numbers model that your notation leans toward, 2+2+2+... and 2+1+2+1+... are definitely the same infinity, both ω.

On the other hand, you reminded me that conditionally convergent series may converge to different sums depending on how you choose to group their terms, which is fun. (That is, [(s_1 + s_2) + s_3 + (s_4 + s_5) + s_6 + ...] may have a different sum than [(s_1 + s_2) + (s_3 + s_4) + (s_5 + s_6) + ...] does.)†

† I hope this is true; I can't find a cite for it. The more famous theorem is that you can get any sum you want by reordering the terms, but I think regrouping is good enough to get you different sums, if not arbitrary sums.

Re:Endless Horse by thaumasiotes on Friday December 30, 2022 @06:55AM (#34184232)
> What is Infinity plus one? It must still be Infinity, since it's already infinitely high and can't go any higher.

This is a mistake. That is how the extended reals behave. There are other systems. The diagonalization argument will already tell you that if you're at infinity, you can still go higher. This is also true for ordinal numbers and nonstandard analysis. It is the general case; the behavior in the extended reals is a special case.

> But if you have an odd number and add one, you get an even number (and vice versa). For Infinity = Infinity + 1 to hold true, Infinity must be both odd and even.

This is much worse; your conclusion is unrelated to your premise. You would need an additional premise, that infinity is either even or odd, which you didn't bother to supply. The same argument will tell you that either (a) 1.3 is even and 2.3 is odd, or (b) 1.3 is odd and 2.3 is even. (a) and (b) are both false.

Re:Endless Horse by lozenge on Friday December 30, 2022 @04:10AM (#34183331)
A set is even if you can pair each element up with another element.

A set is odd if you can pair each element with another element and have one element left over unpaired.

Then infinity is even and odd.

Re:Endless Horse by michaelnoguera on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:38PM (#34180631)
Cries logical Bobby to Ned, will you dare

A bet, which has most legs, a mare, or no mare.

A mare, to be sure, replied Ned, with a grin,

And fifty I’ll lay, for I’m certain to win.

Quoth Bob, you have lost, sure as you are alive,

A mare has but four legs, and no mare has five.

- from A Panorama of Wit, 1809, p. 53

Re:Endless Horse by hooli_gan on Friday December 30, 2022 @05:59AM (#34183910)
Care to explain? I don't get it
Re:Endless Horse by xypage on Friday December 30, 2022 @06:06AM (#34183967)
They bet on whether a horse or no horse has more legs, guy says a horse duh, other guy says haha but a horse has 4 legs and no horse has 5. This means horses don't have 5 legs so no horse has 5, but also taken very literally "no horse has 5" means no horse has more than a horse, 5 vs 4, so they win the bet.
Re:Endless Horse by rubyist5eva on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:50PM (#34180765)
> But there is one horse, that not only has an infinite number of legs, it has legs that are infinitely long.

You had me until this one. Even the tortured logic made sense to me until this point and it feels like this was just shoehorned in to make it work..unless I'm missing something?

Re:Endless Horse by pjot on Thursday December 29, 2022 @09:40PM (#34181149)
This would be a great example for the definition of “truthy[0]”

  a truthy value is a value that is considered true when encountered in a Boolean context.
[0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/Truthy
Re:Endless Horse by kmoser on Thursday December 29, 2022 @10:05PM (#34181328)
I've been through the network on a horse with no end

It felt good to scroll down again

On the Internet you can remember your name

'Cause there ain't no one horse to give you no pain

Re:Endless Horse by SanjayMehta on Thursday December 29, 2022 @10:24PM (#34181423)
There's a version which proves Alexander had an infinite number of arms.

Alexander was a great general. Great generals are forewarned. Forewarned is fore armed. But four is an odd number for a general to have. ...

Re:Endless Horse by xg15 on Saturday December 31, 2022 @07:06AM (#34195724)
> The only number that is both odd an even is infinity.

Couldn't the horse have zero legs too?