Replacing the discs on each wheel is straightforward, and the warping your noticing might be due to pressure from the mounting screws that tie it to the rim of the bike.

Have you tried loosening these, applying the brakes fully, and tightening the screws hand tight to center the brake disc and let it relax to flat?

I think the future is dual hub motors with Regen braking. Having tried this on a brakeless bike and a modified scooter, the performance is very good.

Brakeless bike? Are you able to emergency stop?

I assume "brakeless" means it energizes the motors in reverse when you pull the brake lever. Just no friction brakes. Not a system I would personally use, I don't trust electronics that much.

Me neither. But I'd be interested in having both such that the caliper is backed off a bit so to engage the traditional break you have to pull harder. Maybe after a few years the "brakeless" system could gain my trust.

Is there a company offering dual hub motors and regenerative braking commercially?

Just to add a different anecdote: I have a 2021 radrunner I use daily in Seattle (hilly & rainy), love it, and I have non of these complaints. I have 4 friends with Rads who love them as well.

I don't doubt any of your experiences, but I mention this so readers can get more perspectives.

Perhaps one significant difference between us is that Rad has a showroom / repair shop in Seattle, although I haven't needed them for anything other than easier parts pickup (fenders and break pads.)

Yes I have a 2021 radrunner as well and it's been fabulous. I tow my daughters trailer with it (had to put in a lock washer to keep it all together - $.35) and it's a blast. I've had one slow leak on the front tire, $20 to repair. Otherwise we're approaching 700km with no problems and lots of fun. Couldn't be happier with the build quality.

I usually recommend electric bikes from actual bike companies, like Specialized, because there won't be any weird surprises, you won't have to assemble it yourself, and it will last forever. But everyone I know, other than myself, has gone with a newer electric-only company like Rad or VanMoof. I assume price is the reason.

I've a friend with an electric Specialized, and while his bike looks cooler my Rad is faster, half the price, with much better millage, and I can still hang it from the wall in my apt.

One thing I've noticed is that pretty much every established bike company is placing the motor on the pedal crank, whereas Rad uses a much bigger (750w in my case) in-wheel hub motor. The acceleration with a hub motor is so much better and doesn't depend on what gear I'm in.

What do you mean about hanging on the wall? One of the things you are getting for your $5k from Specialized is light weight. They have ebikes down to 34 pounds, about half what a radrunner weighs.

Yes, the Specialized is much lighter. I mention still being able to hang the bike because that's the situation where I notice the extra weight the most. If I couldn't, it would have been a deal breaker for me.

mid-drives are usually a higher-end option for more serious recreational riding where predictability and consistency is more important than raw acceleration or long range. Basically the goal of the mid-drive is to make you feel like you are riding an analog bike but as a much more fit rider. Sending the power from the bottom bracket helps to keep you and the motor in sync, balances the weight distribution, keep unsprung/rotating weight low, etc. and the small battery keeps the bike light and maneuverable.

> The acceleration with a hub motor is so much better and doesn't depend on what gear I'm in.

I have a 750 watt radbike and I always find this a little bit bothersome in that I end up in situations where I feel like I'm being dragged forward when I don't want to be because my cadence got just a little bit too fast and the motor starts dumping power. I end up treating the pedal assist as another set of gearing to manage so it doesn't start giving me too much power when I am pedalling in a low gear. Higher end rear drives and pretty much all mid-drives solve this by using a torque sensor so the motor responds to the wattage you are putting down rather than the cadence.

I'm not a fan of hub motors. I don't like that much "sprung" weight on the wheel.

The one thing they have going for them is true silence.

But bikes are not rocket science. They can be advanced and high tech, but they can also just be ordinary, well built bikes if using good parts. If the parts are good then the bike is good, the brand matters less for a bike than say for a car.

Well, I just think a real bike company probably has real bike engineers on the staff already and maybe real engineering experience and resources like FEA models and so forth. These new companies make a lot of mistakes, like Yuba with their forks sheering off, and like Rad with their custom, not-available-anywhere tire size. I feel that with a big brand you're going to get a no-surprises bike.

I think what you're going to get from a big brand is a support system for when things go south (ie: a warranty). It used to be that bike shops stocked a few brands of bikes and those brands had a relationship with the shop to provide customer service and a bridge between customer and brand. Less so now after Covid, but it's still a thing.

Bikes are one of those things that are sort of figured out how to make (tho eBikes, less so). You can go to a trade show in east Asia, spec out exactly what you want a run of bikes to be, and they'll do all the hard work for you, and ship you a container full of "your" bikes. Many brands use the same bike manufacturer/factory. Shop for some of them on bikesdirect.com. Many of the "brand" names are just stickers - the companies may have existed as something decades ago, but now live as a name only.

Even a more established brand will send over the cad files of the frame to be built (usually the only really distinguishing thing in most bikes), then spec out the rest of the parts to be put on it. A few visits to the factory from a brand rep/engineer to get details right (welds, layups), then start pumping out orders.

Rad in Seattle for example has a dedicated shop location. I’m not sure what makes it an “actual bike company” vs not but I expect more and more electric first/only brands to emerge over time.

What makes Rad not a bike company? They don't make high end bikes, but they do design and build their own bikes and run a network of shops.

If you go by share of profit from bikes versus other sources I would not be surprised at all if they get more than trek or specialized. Trek/Bontrager and Specialized are notorious in the bike industry for requiring dealers to move accessories if they want to stock bikes. They make a TON of money of accessories at this point

Last time I was given one to ride for a month Rad bikes were basically aliexpress bikes with very crude Bafang electronic assistance which is lightyears behind what Shimano, Bosh, Yamaha or Brose provide.

You don't have to be state of the art to be a bike company. Part of their appeal for me is that they aren't 'state of the art'. They use commodity parts which means that I think they'll be repairable for a lot longer, and they also cost less than half of any of the other brands you mention (just for context, the cheapest Giant e-bike powered by Yamaha costs more than double what a Rad costs, and has a smaller battery).

Kia makes cheap cars using less than cutting edge technology, but that doesn't mean that they are any less of a car company than Mercedes.

Sure, they cater to the low end. But, their designs aren't off the shelf (or aliexpress), they have a network of showrooms and shops, and most importantly there primary business is the selling of bicycles.

VanMoof makes decent non electric bikes too

I really like my RadWagon 4, but several weeks ago, I received a recall notice with their recommendation to stop using the bike until replacements/repairs have been made. I'm really happy they will be making the repairs for me, but since they parts won't even be ready until Feb/Mar 2023 it does me no good since the eBike is my primary mode of transportation.

I know eBikes popularity went to the moon during the pandemic, the global shortages, yadda yadda, but my overall experience from RadPowerBikes customer satisfaction isn't the highest.

As of now, my recalled parts have not failed, and I continue using it, but it's not a good look. I know they have to make those kind of "don't use until repaired" for liability reasons, but man it's frustrating.

Yup, same. I bought my radwagon 4 in august, and then in early september was told I should not ride it. And maybe they will be ready to fix it in Feb/Mar, or maybe it will be later. If it was just me, I would risk it, but I bought it to ferry my kids on so I'm not going to do that. So we got to ride it for 4 weeks, and have had it sitting in our garage for the past 13 weeks, and it will probably be another 13 weeks until it is fixed again if we are lucky. And basically all we get is the bike fixed to the state it should have been in upon delivery, not any kind of compensation for them giving us an unsafe bike and not being able to ride it for 6+ months.

I would not recommend this brand. I guess they decided to do a lot of custom components which is why they have like a 6 month lead time to ship out new non-defective tires (or whatever).

You'll find a lot of love for it online, and I think it is genuine, but I suspect the love for the brand is because it is bought by biking neophytes and makes biking accessible to people who don't want to put a lot of effort into it(nothing wrong with that). So it opens up a lot of possibilities for getting outside and getting fresh air without needing strong thighs or aerobic fitness or getting sweaty, and people associate that with their radwagon, not just generally with an ebike. But there is nothing particularly different about this brand compared to other ebike brands. A lot of ebikes look and function exactly the same as the radwagon, and haven't been part of a longstanding recall.

Hazard: The rim strip on the tires can be misaligned, causing the tube to pop and damage the tire. Additionally, the tires with a ribbed sidewall can unexpectedly go flat, risking serious injuries from loss of control and/or crash.

This is something a beginner can repair. This is normal stuff for those who ride bikes and don't go to a shop for little repairs. Replacing a tube (and fixing it with a small vulcanizing kit) is biking 101, and there they're not even expecting you to repair that. Just check how to replace the tube of a wheel in a youtube video and while at it, check if your strip needs alignment. Tyres often go flat but you normally feel that something is off because it feels "smeary".

The warning is just for those who are not the slightest bit technically inclined and don't feel like doing any of this. To avoid lawsuits.

I bet in the Netherlands any 10 year old kid could check if your wagon is affected and if it is, align the strip.

It’s quite dangerous doing work on the rear wheel. It takes a lot of equipment to get the bike into a stand (ramps, trestles) or on its back. The rear wheel has the motor in it and is very heavy.

Rad designed the drop outs nicely and there’s only a cable tie and a power cable to undo, but I had still had to use a rope as a winch to hold and then lower the wheel out of the frame.

If you’ve done a lot of bike work you’ll know about the danger of crushing your finger between the rear axle fastener and the derailleur body. Now imagine that with a 10lb wheel falling out of the rear dropouts. It’s a pretty dangerous job if you don’t take your time and do things safely and it made me really appreciate how easy it is by comparison to work on a simple, light, mechanical pedal bike.

Yeah, the level of repair for mine is swap a wheel and tire. This is nothing for someone with any mechanical repair abilities at all. As you said, fixing flats on a bike was something I've done since a kid. I have a couple thousand miles on my bike, and I've done all of the maintenance myself. I have tools for it, but for some of these hipster Seattle types that bang out code all day and have never had grease from anything other than their hair on their hands, it might be a bit daunting.

Do you always confidently speak about issues you have no knowledge of? The tires are being recalled and destroyed due to defects. But you think anyone with any mechanical repair abilities can repair them? Why is the company spending millions of dollars on the recall and burning goodwill when they could have owners just pop down to a local bike mechanic(which is something they will have them do regardless with the new tires)?

> the tires with a ribbed sidewall can unexpectedly go flat

If this is the problem you're putting so much weight on, where's the issue with buying new a tire? If you know the parameters, which are printed on the tire itself, you can buy a new one. Once your bike is ready for recall, I'd put on the original set and have it replaced for a new one.

But I myself wouldn't have an issue with just removing the tube once to take a look at it and the tire, then either replace something or just reassemble it and wait until it breaks due to wear, as it will do anyway sometime down the line.

The only difference will be that it will break because of wear (not the companies fault) or because it was of low quality. But I would never assume that this would cause some kind of harm which puts any life in danger, specially because it has 4 wheels.

Do you always talk confidently about emails discussing the recall procedure that you haven't read?

As part of the recall process, they will ship me the replacement parts. I don't live in Seattle for them to make the repair for me. I am free to install these myself, or if I'm mechanically challenged, they will arrange for a local repair shop to make these repairs for me. I'm not repairing the friggin recalled tire. What a moron to make that assumption. I'm making the repair taking the recalled part off, and then placing the corrected part on.

>Yeah, the level of repair for mine is swap a wheel and tire.

What kind of thick skulled imbecile can't understand that?

You responded affirmatively to qwertox who is saying basically you can fix the issue by yourself. The issue at hand with the radwagon4, which is the topic, is the current tires are unsafe, which is why there is a recall and the tires are being destroyed. There is not a recall on the wheels, and there is no need to swap a wheel.

So I still have no idea what you're talking about. But I do have some idea that you're an absolute cock.

Yes, in a response to you acting like you know what your talking about while telling me I have no idea what I am talking about, I was a cock to you.

In my emails, I was told I would be receiving a new wheel as well as tires. So, I have no idea why you would feel necessary to suggest I won't be needing to swap a wheel when they are sending me a wheel. That's okay, sense I don't know what I'm talking about and you do. Have a good life being better than everyone else though.

You must be getting different emails than literally everyone else then. Maybe you should check again.

It must be more than that, since they are recalling the tires and destroying them. They're doing a new run of tires, and having local bike mechanics swap them out.

And.. what's taking so long? We are not talking about some custom-made part to fix some frame defect or another. Rim strips and tires are plentiful. They could pay neighborhood bike shops a flat fee to get this recall out of the way for their customers.

How should I know? But I imagine with the popularity of the radwagon4, they would get this out of the way quicker if they could and continue selling them. I think they used some weird/rare type of tire - there's talk in radwagon forums of replacing the tires with "moped tires", but I never looked into it. But if this was just a case of sending people to their local bike mechanic who would take a new tire off the wall, I'm sure they would do that, since their process has you going to a mechanic(eventually) anyway once the new tires are in.

What takes anything in today's world to take so long?...It's manufactured in China.

They discovered the problem. Waited long enough to see how extensive the problem was. After whatever investigation process there was, it was determined that they were just manufactured poorly. Design error or manufacturing error? More testing. Now that the true issue is understood, how to fix it. Iterate changes to make new replacement better than original design. Cool. Now, find a factory and get in their queue to manufacture the thing. Receive shipment via literal slow boat from China. Distribute parts, arrange repair mechanic appointments, etc.

I'm not defending the situation I find myself in, but if you honestly can't think of "what's taking so long", then I'd suggest you're just not trying at all. Maybe you have no experience manufacturing something, so that might be out of your wheel house. It's not like someone can just say 'git clone bicycle parts' or 'npm update bicycle parts'

You are kidding, right? As the poster above already noticed, this is a common as mud problem on bicycles and you should be able to replace these parts (and just about any non-electrical part on it) with a variety of choices from a variety of vendors. And "you" being "any bike shop" given this is a recall the vendor is expected to perform (or delegate) and pay for.

If you can't, the reality is you didn't buy a bike, you bought a bicycle-shaped object with proprietary components designed for the landfill.

It's the Juicero of bikes.

Overall, I'm quite happy with my bike. It does exactly what I wanted it to when I purchased it. However, it's the company itself that just seems to have it's head insert fully up their backside. It seems to be a Seattle thing, but I feel it would fit in perfectly inside the SV VC world of "disruptors" where a concept that is as ubiquitous as a bike gets updated to be the VC darling of a thing only to realize the updates are so stupid that it devalues the entire thing. Rather than using stock component parts, let's custom design everything!! What could go wrong?

To those who don't know, Juicero's juice pressing machines were notoriously complex and expensive due to extensive use of custom components. https://blog.bolt.io/juicero/

The tires literally are custom for the RadWagon 4. It uses 22" wheels and tires, which is a non-standard size. You can't buy 22" tires from anyone except Vee Tire Co, which makes them specifically for Rad Power Bikes.

18x2.75 motorcycle/scooter tires should fit (so says Reddit).

I commuted daily to work on a RadCity bike pre-covid (wfh since then) and my experience with it was excellent.

3000km seems ridiculous as the lifetime for a bicycle, and to make it worse an e-bike will be e-waste. That would mean it was trash in a year for my commute alone, and this is in NYC where commutes are pretty short. That doesn’t even account for recreational riding.

That being said a puncture is just a normal bicycle problem. Does Rad offer tubeless compatible components? I’m guessing e-bikers may be less “normal bicycle maintenance” oriented than your average road/gravel/mountain bike owner and tubeless would nearly eliminate punctures.

Everything is 2x heavier and so everything needs two hands.

Changing a tube on my road bike is like flipping a pancake. Changing a tube on the RadRunner is like flipping a turkey.

I'll chime in that my battery died around 500 miles and Rad refused to replace it. Would not recommend.

My only complaint against them is I tried to buy a battery tray from them so I could swap the battery between my Rad City and my 48v homebrew bike, and they refused to sell it to me. (Edit: To be clear I went back a couple of months later, told a different story, and got one.)

I also had a battery charging issue after 1000 miles and a winter where it got unplugged from the charger for a couple of months, but I count that as my mistake. I got to take apart the old battery pack though, and one interesting thing I found was that although the power output has half a dozen electrodes on it, only the two big + and - ones were connected to anything.

I bought a used RadRunner. The disc brakes are prone to warping especially if you transport your bike and lay it on its side. Try not to put excessive weight on the discs. I just fix mine using pliers and manually bending back or forward the warp parts of the disc. It's quite simple and YouTube explains it well.

I did replace the front fork because the previous one was bent. I think this happens when you're going 20mph and hit a curb or sharp bump. Replacement part was $60.

Kickstand spring broke and Rad gave me another for $1 along with nuts and bolts that were missing from the previous owner.

Electric motor and battery is doing fine. I purchased another battery for long rides. Because Rad is so popular there are great/cheap OEM options that other e-bike manufacturers don't have.

I think for the price Rad is amazing if you're willing to tinker with it occasionally.