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Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by capableweb on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @11:51AM (#33721600)
Is the actual hardware they are running published somewhere? Didn't seem to be mentioned in this blog post nor the previous ones, unless I missed it.

~2000 USD seems slightly expensive for what they are doing, to be honest. ~900 USD would give you a 32 cores (AMD EPYC 7502P), 1TB RAM and ~15.36TB storage over at Hetzner, just a single instance. Double that and seems they would be covered for quite a while, and it comes just under 2000 USD.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by michaelanckaert on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @11:54AM (#33721641)
All costs are detailed here: https://hub.fosstodon.org/about/#current-funding

Yes it could be done cheaper, if they did more work themselves. The masto.host service they're using is basically Mastodon as a service - aka they're paying someone to host (and manage) a Mastodon instance.

All in all fair value for the money IMO.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by datalopers on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:06PM (#33721747)
> All in all fair value

Unless I'm missing something huge, how is $1900/mo for 96GB of database and 700GB of disk storage remotely a fair value? AWS on-demand prices are significantly more affordable than that.

And this is all to support a grand total of 50,000 users? What in the world? Is Mastodon just the most inefficiently written software ever or something?

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by perihelions on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:32PM (#33722085)
$TWTR's all-inclusive expenses were 25x higher than this. $5.6B/year = $470M/month, in support of 260M daily active users. $1.80/user-month, as compared vs. $0.07/user-month on here (I'm only counting the 30k "active").

I feel like it's a bargain social media, both in feature-set and cost.

(I don't understand the server cost breakdown either, and I don't pretend do. Just doing an empirical comparison).

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by charcircuit on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:56PM (#33722391)
The incentives of optimizing for future revenue are different than those when you are optimizing for minimizing expenses. These values are not very comparable.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by lostlogin on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:03PM (#33722469)
Which of those two is the one optimising for future revenue?

Not trying to be a smart arse - it’s just that the obvious pick (Twitter) has been aiming for revenue from the beginning and haven’t really delivered.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by charcircuit on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @10:48PM (#33727605)
Twitter.

>has been aiming for revenue from the beginning and haven’t really delivered.

In 2021 twitter had 5.08 billion dollars of revenue. Their ad revenue divided by DAU was about $20. No mastodon instance is close to getting $20 per active user per year.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by lostlogin on Thursday November 24, 2022 @02:37AM (#33728697)
I’ve made the most basic of errors. I was thinking I was discussing profit.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by TaylorAlexander on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:44PM (#33723025)
I find the comparison very interesting, in the broader debate of "how can not for profit services with no ads compete with giant for profit advertising based serices". I have really appreciated the analysis in this thread.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by michaelanckaert on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:09PM (#33721771)
Automated backups, monitoring, a person "on call) to manage your instance and handle any issues?

The Fosstodon admins run the moderation side, but masto.host (their service provider) is paid to keep the lights on.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by rendleflag on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:24PM (#33721981)
It's easy to say "buy a box and connect it to the internet", but that's consumer grade equipment. If my computer goes down, it only affects me. When an instance goes down, it can affect thousands of people.

I'm not saying they couldn't find a less expensive solution with AWS or Azure, but they need a solution now. They don't have the time to learn a new solution, design the system, and then implement a new backend while people are swarming to their instance. Migrating to another solution (even the above "box") means significant downtime for 50,000 people.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by datalopers on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:10PM (#33721789)
No, I'm sorry, these are not reasonable costs. Is there a reason why the mastodon community has utterly no clue what sort of performance/cost should support an utterly basic social media platform?
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by Un1corn on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:18PM (#33721909)
You are always welcome to use the opportunity and start a competing service in a fraction of the cost. Mastodon is indeed inefficient but you also pay a lot for peace of mind.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by Kye on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:40PM (#33722966)
More to the point: the masto.host guy has been there working on making starting an instance accessible from early on. People don't seem to mind paying a little premium to support someone who's done a lot of work to jumpstart the fediverse. Starting a competing service might be easy from a technical aspect, but reputation counts for a lot here.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by cdmckay on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:54PM (#33722371)
Instead of condescending to them, why not try to help the project be more efficient with resources? It is an open source project after all.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by nells on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:18PM (#33721907)
Yes? It’s written in RoR.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by datalopers on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:24PM (#33721988)
Is the ActivityPub spec just as bad, or would it be performant if written in a proper language?
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by tpm on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:19PM (#33722680)
There are other clients, like gotosocial written in Go, so a comparison is possible, but not sure if someone has already done that.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by goneri on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:26PM (#33722774)
Pleroma is an Mastodon clone written in Elixir https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by charcircuit on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:18PM (#33721911)
>Mastodon just the most inefficiently written software ever or something?

Yes, it's notoriously bad.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by hutrdvnj on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:41PM (#33722974)
The backend is written in Ruby on Rails not something like Rust, this explains why it has such beefy hardware requirements for 50k users.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by weinzierl on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:54PM (#33722364)
The masto.host "Mastodon as a service" is a one-man show run superbly by Hugo Gameiro. This and comparing it with other Mastodon hosters: absolutely fair value for the money.
Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by capableweb on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:18PM (#33722662)
> All costs are detailed here: https://hub.fosstodon.org/about/#current-funding

It doesn't actually list where and how the service itself is hosted, it just says "Fosstodon hosting" and the amount. I'm looking to understand what hardware is being used and where it's hosted.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by Kye on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:44PM (#33723016)
https://masto.host/infrastructure/

>> "The data centers used for Masto.host are from OVH and are located in France."

So probably whatever OVH offers.

Re:Fosstodon Hub – More Upgrades by capableweb on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @07:27PM (#33726350)
> So probably whatever OVH offers.

That'd be more helpful if it narrowed it down a bit more.

OVH offers ranges from 8 USD/month for a virtual CPU core in public cloud to like 1500 USD/month dedicated instances with 24 dedicated cores.