News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by xutopia on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:08PM (#33207594)
The overfished. Simple as that. Snow crabs have been becoming smaller and smaller because the biggest ones were not living that long anymore. It happened to cod fisheries in eastern Canada and it is happening everywhere until it's too late.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by chaxor on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:37PM (#33207910)
This likely isn't true due to the scale of disappearance of crabs.

*90% of the are gone - in only 2 years* That's not just overfishing, something much worse has happened.

The cod overfishing was also a very unfortunate tale, but they saw the signs and tracked them catching fire and burning to the ground the entire time, just didn't do anything about it.

Here, AFAIK, they were bewildered at how this occured.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by jobu on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:17PM (#33208357)
Other sources I've seen are blaming the dramatic heat during the summer of 2019. It "scrambled the broader marine ecosystem" causing die-offs and migrations for many species of fish. Snow Crabs are primarily deep water scavengers so they had plenty of food that year, but have struggled since.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by taylodl on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:10PM (#33208835)
Some people don't want to hear that because it's counter to their world-view. Earth isn't warming. Everything is OK. We can continue burning fossil fuels while having zero impact to the environment. Is there a word describing this mass wishful thinking?
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by Tagbert on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:27PM (#33209005)
That mass wishful thinking is call “climate change denial”.

We keep adding more and more evidence that climate change is happening. Even on a local scale we can all see significant changes in our local climate from year to year. The older among us can see this even more clearly if they chose. From what we know of the atmosphere there HAS to be heating from the rapid increase in CO2.

You can stick your fingers in your ears as much as you want but it won’t prevent this from happening and at an accelerating pace.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by peyton on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:58PM (#33209301)
Also the solutions being pushed kind of suck for most people. We’ve had 50 years of sustainability and eco-asceticism. Denial is a perfectly fine reaction to the solutions being proposed.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by hedora on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:38PM (#33209624)
A dollar a gallon tax on gasoline would be more than enough to capture the CO2 it releases.

Other energy sources are similar.

These costs are way below what happens when some oil producer throws a tantrum or starts a war. However, unlike wars, etc., such a tax would directly cut into oil company profits.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by qorrect on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:59PM (#33209798)
Your crazy if you think the government isn't going to just piss that money away. Its already at ~$.50 a gallon with federal and state taxes. And the oil companies will just stop producing to lower supply and inflate the price. More taxes are going to hurt the individual , companies have enough money to get around it. No, we need a revolution.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by gremlinsinc on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:00PM (#33209322)
The same people who get pumped up by football games and tailgaters, war epics, and 'badassery' and doing stupid but 'brave' things like shooting fireworks out your ass, are the same people who will deny anything that's 'too scary' not to.

Or attribute it to "God's will" and then still assume he'll take care of things so they can just go on ignoring the issues.

Reminds me of the cowardly lion who could talk a big game,but was inwardly afraid of everything. Even xenophobia and racism --it's ALL rooted in fear of 'others' fear of this. Politicians know damn well the power of fear, and have used it w/ great success to stay in power and keep left/right workers divided on stuff like abortion/gun rights.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by revscat on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:45PM (#33209194)
> Is there a word describing this mass wishful thinking?

An existential threat to all human life.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by oesexe on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:26PM (#33207794)
COD, the fish that changed the world. Amazingly well written book.

Apparently Cod used to be MUCH larger than it is today. for the same reason, they dont grow very old.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by nemo44x on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:53PM (#33208094)
Many fish were much larger in the not so distant past. Marlin in Caribbean used to be huge compared to todays catch. Pictures from the 1950's and earlier, you see some just massive Marlin. They're big today but nothing like how they used to be. But we have a whole lot more people on the Earth today.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by wahern on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:37PM (#33208543)
> "We are eating bait and moving on to jellyfish and plankton", [University of British Columbia fisheries scientist] Pauly said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/30/local/la-me-ocean30j... (https://web.archive.org/web/20161010003945/http://articles.l...), p3

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by disqard on Saturday October 15, 2022 @01:50AM (#33212108)
Thank you for sharing those, esp. the one about Lyngbya majuscula blooms.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by nickfromseattle on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:43PM (#33208604)
Here is an article that highlights this change. Just scroll the pictures, don't need to read the words.

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/b...

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by whyenot on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:51PM (#33208070)
No, it's not that simple. The snow crab fishery is pretty highly regulated and considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others). As mentioned in an another article [1] from August on the recent disappearance, there were large numbers of juveniles in 2018 and 2019. Something else is going on. Overfishing certainly may play a role, but something else is likely the primary factor.

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-cr...

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by insane_dreamer on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:24PM (#33208406)
> considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others)

maybe they considered incorrectly, based on historical data that doesn't reflect recent conditions

also possibly that regulations are being flaunted by bad actors

it could seem improbable that either of those would lead to a sudden catastrophic decline, but many systems do experience a point where what had been a linear decline suddenly craters in a non-linear fashion

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by PuppyTailWags on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:31PM (#33208472)
In previous collapses such organizations sounded the alarm well before. Something else is happening.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by barkingcat on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:44PM (#33209673)
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-...

The alarm has been sounding for at least a season, maybe even more.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by llbeansandrice on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:57PM (#33209783)
By contrast cod that folks keep referencing collapsed 90% over _30 years_. An issue with a single season does not suggest that the regulations weren't strict enough. They now do need to become more strict as a reaction to the population but fishing is not the only pressure on a population and I find it difficult to believe that snow crab would be fished basically to extinction in < 700 days
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by hedgehog on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:24PM (#33208407)
I don't know much about snow crab but Dungeness and various oysters in the Pacific Northwest US are threatened by rising ocean acidity caused by increased CO2. Warmer water is also allowing green crabs to take hold. Farther south urchins have killed off a lot of kelp forest in a way that seems not to self-correct. Easy to imagine there are similar problems all over the ocean.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by soperj on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:42PM (#33208590)
Sea urchins are a problem everywhere in the pacific, and that's because their main predator (sea otters) were nearly wiped out.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by swhalen on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:26PM (#33209528)
I think it's just the western coast of North America that has this problem, rather than the entire Pacific. For example in New Zealand, which is in the Pacific, there were never any sea otters. Urchins, regarded locally as a delicacy, are not particularly abundant.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by greggsy on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:34PM (#33209600)
Crown-of-thorns starfish, on the other hand, are a very serious problem in Australia
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by rileyphone on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:37PM (#33208535)
At least the urchin problem is caused, in part, by the mysterious sea star wasting disease - a disbiosis of their microbial layer that leads to rapid death. Sea stars are the natural predators of the urchins, and with their disappearance, the urchins flourish and take down the kelp.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by steelframe on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:52PM (#33209253)
> Sea stars are the natural predators of the urchins, and with their disappearance, the urchins flourish and take down the kelp.

No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the the urchins.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by kfrzcode on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:06PM (#33209373)
Things that are easy to imagine aren't always easy to prove
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by WalterBright on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:14PM (#33208870)
Wildlife populations are a chaotic system, i.e. not steady state, even without any influence by humans.

It's still worth investigating, however.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by marcjuul on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:54PM (#33209270)
Absolutely not an expert here and would love to be corrected but my poorly informed personal impression is that the whole idea of a sustainable amount of fishing and whether all species even have a number that is safe to harvest (especially given that no species exists in isolation), let alone what that number is, is on fairly shaky grounds scientifically. Meaning that a lot of this is guesswork based on too little information and "doing something is better than doing nothing" compromises with the fishing industry. If a species population has appeared to be stable for x number of years with y amount of fishing, does that mean that it's sustainable? Indefinitely? Given other changes in ecosystem and environment?
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by colordrops on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:33PM (#33209588)
Thank you. The problem with a lot of the discussion around this topic is that most people are heavily biased as they derive great pleasure from consuming these animals, and so certain ideas and theories are ignored or under represented.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by barkingcat on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:43PM (#33209666)
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-...

Notice that this article is from 2021 for last year's catch.

"The 2021 fall harvest of Bristol Bay red king crab, another important source of revenue for that fleet, was canceled for this year because of too few females."

The collapse has been happening for years. This year it's just another species. Species by species it's going to collapse. Next will be shrimp and krill.

Don't be surprised when the salmon runs collapse too, because for 3 years now every single year has been a 90% decline.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by darth_avocado on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:00PM (#33208182)
I am willing to bet it is illegal fishing boats from countries I dare not to list for being downvoted. It is well known that some countries list a few hundred boats but in reality have fleets of tens of thousands of boats that operate under the radar. They over fish and destroy entire ecosystems and no one is doing anything about it.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by krastanov on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:05PM (#33208233)
But China is overfishing in the public, not "under the radar", and they usually only go up to someones territorial waters, do not completely cross. Moreover, I very much doubt they would dare do so to a semi-powerful western state, let alone the US. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/insider/a-clear-look-at-c...
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by ROTMetro on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:31PM (#33209046)
I remember chilling north coast of Santa Cruz late one night after a surf sesh, and boats pulling up to shore, unloading people and other items. This was right about when (was it Golden Budda?) in Soquel got busted for smuggling chinese machine guns? Sure they cross territorial waters.

(Man I was bummed. They had the best hot and sour soup.)

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by woodruffw on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:07PM (#33208243)
Do you have any evidence to back this up, or is this just xenophobic speculation?

China’s encroachment on sovereign waters for fishing is one thing when it’s against South American countries with small navies; it’s another thing entirely when it’s the US. I doubt they’re behind this.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by vnchr on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:17PM (#33208362)
Is it xenophobic when your own comment cites that exact behavior?
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by logicalmonster on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:24PM (#33208408)
Why are you assuming that the poster is hinting at China when his comment didn't mention the country?
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by dmix on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:40PM (#33208579)
Portuguese fisherman were the big thing off the coast of Canada. Definitely not unique to China, although they seem to use fishing boats as a political tool like Russia uses little green men. But that's closer to their shores.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by jjk166 on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:38PM (#33208554)
How many states are there with access to pacific waters that could potentially have thousands of unregistered fishing vessels and whom a poster would be uncomfortable naming explicitly for fear of backlash?
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by logicalmonster on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:04PM (#33208776)
Seems odd that this is a logical guess, but then that's labelled as "xenophobic speculation".
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by jjk166 on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:35PM (#33209079)
It's a logical guess that the only country that could have thousands of unregistered ships would be china, one of the worlds leading industrial powers with a large pacific coastline. It's xenophobic speculation that china does in fact have these ships and specifically are the cause of this population collapsing.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by samatman on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:53PM (#33209259)
This is widely known, just not to you.

Calling names won't change that.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by NSMutableSet on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:22PM (#33209502)
Japan's pacific coastline is twice as large as China's. Your logic here is extremely faulty.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by heavyset_go on Friday October 14, 2022 @07:40PM (#33210083)
Japan engages in illegal fishing all over the Pacific.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by virgildotcodes on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:39PM (#33208563)
It's kind of an obvious dog whistle, come on.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by outworlder on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:53PM (#33208686)
If the shoe fits...
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by vore on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:13PM (#33208860)
Tell me what other country the OP could possibly mean when they said "countries I dare not to list for being downvoted".
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by logicalmonster on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:23PM (#33208956)
China seems like a logical guess, but that statement could describe Israel or other countries that have very passionate supporters as well.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by josegonzalez on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:33PM (#33209057)
I don't think it could mean Israel given that we're talking about the Bering Strait and not the Mediterranean or Red Sea.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by fwip on Friday October 14, 2022 @07:19PM (#33209942)
Sure, if you think Israel is well known for overfishing in the Pacific Ocean?
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by woodruffw on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:26PM (#33208989)
China has been the subject of multiple high-profile news stories (and popular HN threads) about overfishing. They’re also the standard xenophobic bugbear on HN.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by stjohnswarts on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:31PM (#33209042)
China is by far overfishing all over the world compared to other countries. I doubt the Alaskan crabs are a result of that though. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/25/can-anyo...
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by pphysch on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:06PM (#33208241)
Or there are corrupt fishery regulators who are giving wild overestimations of fish population in return for kickbacks from fishery associations/cartels.

If it was the Big Bad, there would be political uproar. But if it was good ole corruption, it would be business as usual.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by Supermancho on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:37PM (#33208531)
> They over fish and destroy entire ecosystems and no one is doing anything about it.

That's not just hyperbole, it's flat wrong. Some organizations try to do things about it, even if the methodologies have historically been ineffective. Nobody would be able to completely solve it, while the Oceans are still largely uncontrolled.

https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2022/06/gover...

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by stjohnswarts on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:26PM (#33208993)
If there were enough boats out there to reduce the population 90% in two years then we would know. Our radar isn't -that- bad.
Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by melling on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:17PM (#33208909)
Yes, “the climate is always changing”

Those “alarmist”.

People certainly do blame climate change when they shouldn’t, adding to the denial problem.

But in this case 90% disappearing in 2 years probably isn’t overfishing.

Re:Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of a... by mattpallissard on Friday October 14, 2022 @06:08PM (#33209395)
Nothing with fisheries is simple.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/feature-story/preliminary-sur...

Also, a lot of people are comparing this to the Canadian DFO's handling of the Cod fishery. Sorry, this is not like that. Both in time line and management style. This fishery was just shut down, it's had its numbers slashed previously as well. In the Cod situation they had their foot in the accelerator until the very end.