News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by simonh on Monday October 03, 2022 @04:52PM (#33073527)
To be clear, this is entirely about advertising within Apple's App Store (that's what Apple Search Ads is). It has nothing to do with ads on the internet or in Safari, or even within third party apps.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by jdgoesmarching on Monday October 03, 2022 @05:41PM (#33074096)
I feel like the real outrage here should be for developers who already pay a fee for the privilege of being Apple developers, give up 30% of their revenue for the privilege of being inconsistently judged by app review, and now need to fork over extra money just to have their exact app name appear when searched.

It’s insulting to the dev community who drove the success of the app store and arguably iOS in general. No amount of “we love our devs” PR can reconcile this.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by thr0wawayf00 on Monday October 03, 2022 @05:50PM (#33074198)
> It’s insulting to the dev community who drove the success of the app store and arguably iOS in general. No amount of “we love our devs” PR can reconcile this.

Apple built this market to control it completely, you could see it coming from miles away. It seems like the big move nowadays is build your market (i.e. "platform") and you get to be judge, jury and executioner. How did you see something like this playing out? I just don't understand how people still aren't cynical enough to see this kind of thing coming.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by jdgoesmarching on Monday October 03, 2022 @07:56PM (#33075199)
I’m not an Apple dev, but their app store is around 60% of global market share for apps and I don’t fault people for choosing food on the table over platform ideology. I’m also not interested in this zero empathy game of “you should have known better” when the power imbalance is this severe. I lay the fault at the feet of Apple, where it belongs.

Tangentially, I think the tech community needs to be prepared to examine its assumptions about how much control large companies should have over their platforms as they start to resemble utilities. We can’t keep pretending that a duopoly represents real market choice.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by tracker1 on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:18PM (#33075326)
Is it really a duopoly even.. it's more like two Monopolies of similar markets.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by ethbr0 on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:49PM (#33075530)
IMHO, there's a difference between 'Platform companies squeeze as much revenue as they can by controlling their developers' and 'I can't believe Apple would do this!' The latter gets annoying.

Apple has always been just as cutthroat of a business as anyone else, albeit with a different model (hardware) and better branding/PR.

But see how much difference the hardware model makes when the market's down for a bit and Apple needs to juice revenue...

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by thr0wawayf00 on Monday October 03, 2022 @09:39PM (#33075890)
> I’m not an Apple dev, but their app store is around 60% of global market share for apps and I don’t fault people for choosing food on the table over platform ideology.

I don't either, but if that's the decision, then where do people come off thinking that they're owed something for participating in a market that they never had a controlling share of in the first place? That's what I don't get. I don't judge people for wanting to put food on the table, but don't act like you're then owed goodwill or whatever for making the rich people richer if that's the way you truly see it. You're supporting capitalism upfront and expecting some sort of vague socialism on the back end. How many times are people gonna get disappointed before they realize that big corporations don't care about them and never have?

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by pdimitar on Monday October 03, 2022 @09:45PM (#33075926)
I don't get your questions. People have realized this, and many other things, just fine.

It's not like realization is a magic reality bending power however. You can both (a) realize big incumbents are not fair and (b) still have no choice but to go them if you want to make money from your app.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by Dalewyn on Monday October 03, 2022 @06:36PM (#33074624)
>you get to be judge, jury and executioner.

This has been the case with every single instance of software repositories (aka app stores). Remember the whole ffmpeg and libav schism that was fueled in part by repo maintainers imposing their dogmatic will? Or more recently Debian and whether to include non-free code in its installers (aka local repository)? I can't quite grasp why this doesn't appear immediately obvious to anyone.

The only truly free ecosystem is something like Win32, where developers are free to write whatever they want, publishers are free to sell whatever they want where- and however they want, and the operating system is dependent on that free ecosystem for continued relevance.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by int_19h on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:26PM (#33075364)
Given that you can add whatever repos you want on Debian and/or install packages directly outside of any repo - and that people actually do just that for the non-free stuff - how is it any less free than Windows?
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by smoldesu on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:20PM (#33075334)
Software repositories can distribute whatever software they want, the examples you've given are of arbitrary decisions made by repo owners. Furthermore, Win32 isn't an 'ecosystem', it's just a set of APIs you can target to pantomime software behavior. It doesn't relate to software distribution whatsoever, just as the Darwin/XNU kernel doesn't handle packaging.

In fact, you've done a very good job of highlighting the problem with the iPhone. MacOS' software distribution works because it offers a distribution-agnostic API for native apps, same as Windows. iOS/iPadOS don't expose those interfaces to the user, which means the only way to 'install' an app is with Apple's good graces. Compared to Debian, where you can still install non-free packages regardless of how it exists in the repo, Apple's status quo is considerably more restrictive (and abusive).

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by datadata on Monday October 03, 2022 @06:05PM (#33074361)
People might be able to see it coming, but could still be enticed by the riches to be made for a while by playing the game even while knowing how it ends.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by munificent on Monday October 03, 2022 @06:49PM (#33074726)
Or simply be making the rational economic choice given a lack of better alternatives.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by yazaddaruvala on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:24PM (#33075359)
My guess, knowing nothing: Apple will drop the AppStore payments commission to 3% (for the first $X MM of payments).

I don't love Ads based rev stream, but Apple needs some revenue source for the AppStore. Currently the 30% of virtual goods payments is getting a lot of scrutiny. They have already started to reduce it to 15% in many cases. It just makes sense that this will get reduced to 3% over time.

Apple is pivoting to Ads so that they can reduce the % without much of an impact to their top and bottom line.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by shostack on Monday October 03, 2022 @09:08PM (#33075661)
Not much different from Amazon, Google, or even grocery stores and retail.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by purpleblue on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:14PM (#33075310)
As a user, I love the fact that the App Store has an extra pair of eyes to at least try to keep some consistency. It may suck for iOS developers but as an end user it feels safer than Android.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by tracker1 on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:21PM (#33075341)
Yeah... have to disagree there... I don't think they do nearly the QA/QC that their pricing model would have you believe. They'd have to just flat charge $100 for every time you submit a new app version for it to be that way, or closer to it and that would require much smaller cut of revenue to make sense. Meaning less overall money to apple, but higher quality over quanity.

For a practical example, see what LinkedIn did a few years back... I trust nobody, and am largely disinclined to install any/most applications.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by leaflets2 on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @04:16AM (#33077715)
What did LinkedIn do a few years back?
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by tracker1 on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @06:07PM (#33087737)
They setup an email proxy on people's phones to capture all the mail going in and out.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by leaflets2 on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @11:08AM (#33096534)
Wow that made me slightly laugh. Ok now I've read a bit, at least people had to do sth to get it installed, but still...

You meant the Intro app I suppose,

https://threatpost.com/linkedin-intro-app-equivalent-to-man-...

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by pavlov on Monday October 03, 2022 @05:07PM (#33073718)
And Google ads used to be only unobtrusive text inlined with search results until it wasn’t.

If there’s growth in a segment of business that’s moving the needle at a multi-trillion market cap corporation like Apple, there are executives and product managers all over the place hoping to get on board.

Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by CobrastanJorji on Monday October 03, 2022 @05:38PM (#33074055)
I agree, I think you mean that they were NOT inline. They were out of the line, in an entirely separate column. With a different background color. With the words "sponsored links" added to their box.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by simonh on Monday October 03, 2022 @05:19PM (#33073852)
Maybe, I suppose we'll see, but people have been saying this ever since the Google/Apple bust up over user data in Google Maps back in 2009. If we condemned everyone for things they might do one day we'd all be in jail for life.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by kuratkull on Monday October 03, 2022 @05:21PM (#33073868)
Google search ads used to be in a separate box to the right of the search results.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by drawingthesun on Monday October 03, 2022 @06:21PM (#33074492)
Incorrect I just checked that the stocks app on Mac OS does indeed have unrelated adverts.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by simonh on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @04:14AM (#33077705)
Thanks, I missed the brief mention of those, but it's still not an ATT issue and they do apply the same standards to their own apps.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by rchaud on Monday October 03, 2022 @07:46PM (#33075121)
Apple has ads everywhere, including Apple News and Stocks, and I imagine iMovie, Pages and Keynote soon enough.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by musictubes on Monday October 03, 2022 @10:38PM (#33076184)
News and Stocks are essentially the same system. Stocks is just financial news tied to the things in your watchlist.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by faller_slive on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @02:31PM (#33084687)
> Apple has hinted that more of its own apps can soon get ads. It was reported that the company eyes bring ads to Maps, Books and Podcasts apps.
Re:Apple’s ad business set to boom on the back of its own an... by zmmmmm on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:45PM (#33075497)
did you miss the whole section of the article about ads in the stocks and other apps on MacOS?