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Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by LatteLazy on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:03AM (#33007403)
We're really seeing a counterrevolution around sex and sexuality. From Row vs Wade to crackdowns on pornography to this, America is getting back to its puritanical roots...
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by derbOac on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:50AM (#33007922)
I don't want to push back too much against what you're saying, but this is a bit complicated, at least in the US, I think?

First, some of the stuff like Roe v Wade I think is more the result of political strategy than public opinion. If the electoral college were eliminated, for example, and US political process were more representative, you'd see very different patterns over the last couple of decades. I'm not all that surprised to see studies showing that Americans misunderstand the opinions of their peers on many topics, because of a discrepancy between political representation and public opinion. Basically electoral college and senate politics, combined with gerrymandering, has distorted certain things somewhat.

Second, my sense is this is a bit of rose-colored glasses with regard to looking at the past. Anyone who looks back at the politics around the AIDS crisis, and remembers the congressional hearings around music lyrics (!) might be a little reluctant to characterize things like porn financing controversies as a norm regression. Onlyfans leveled porn distribution in a way that previous years didn't have to deal with, so to some extent this is just the same-old blocs responding to new technology. I also think to some extent this is more due to hard cold financial risk modeling than the article admits -- I don't think it's all of it, but some of it (the article implies, for instance, that all those chargebacks are due to regrets rather than, say, it being a common charge with stolen credit information; I'm sure it's a bit of both but the latter possibility isn't really acknowledged at all in the piece, even if to refute it).

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Ironlikebike on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @11:27AM (#33009096)
My understanding is that payment processors find themselves enforcing the Overton Window lest they run afoul of present legal trends. There's a sliding scale on what is or is not acceptable for them to be facilitating and it changes constantly.

Within sex work, where on the sliding scale of acceptability does enabling a "self employed cam model", vs facilitating a "trafficked cam model" fall, especially when a payment processor has no idea what is going on behind the scenes? Is the payment processor supposed to watch the stream and recognize a gang tattoo and conclude that one is trafficked while another is not?

I can see people on the political right in the US saying they shouldn't process payments for pornography at all, and people on the left saying "I can't believe that <company> facilitates trafficking or victimization". I'd see the payments processors saying "It's not worth it to process any payments for any pornography at all".

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by GekkePrutser on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:17AM (#33007527)
And with it a large part of the western world is following suit, sadly. Britain for example is regressing to the Victorian era. And the rest of Europe is heading the same way. Not having any serious competitors for VISA/MasterCard doesn't help.
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by BlargMcLarg on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:19AM (#33007554)
The majority of the west isn't 'following' the US. Sex workers and their consumers have always been seen as 'lesser' or 'tainted', across most cultures.

It's never been easier to sell your body and find an audience to applaud you for it. It's just not the majority.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by GekkePrutser on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @11:27AM (#33009098)
Here in Europe I also see a much stronger moral conservatism. Like I said Britain is the strongest example. But also the Netherlands, and it really is highly influenced by American culture. Even the language on the street is half Dutch half American now :)

In the 80s it was totally normal for (regular non-porn) Dutch movies to contain exposed boobs for example. No way that happens now without very restrictive ratings. And countries like Ireland have outlawed prostitution and Spain is thinking about it.

Of course the west has always been the most open in this kind of thing, probably because we're not as religious. In the Middle East there is almost no difference between government and religion whereas we try to separate them.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by jrm4 on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:15AM (#33007508)
Real talk. As someone who was raised Catholic, I just sort of assumed that sexual repression was a by-product of strong religious beliefs, and now I'm both fascinated and dismayed to discover that religion is in no way a requirement for this.

America has managed to reinstate sexual repression, and it's odd how there's no clear "source" for it beyond "habitual capitalism" or something like that.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by alistairSH on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:33AM (#33007711)
religion is in no way a requirement for this

What makes you say this? Roe was tossed aside by a largely reactionary Catholic bench[1]. State-level anti-choice, anti-LGBTQ, and anything else dealing with sexuality is largely pushed by Evangelicals or other fundamentalist Christian politicians.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Co...

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by jrm4 on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @11:43AM (#33009300)
I now no longer believe it's a primary driver -- rather a reflection-slash-convenient reason for some underlying social force of repression.

Point is, repression can still exist and manifest without it. See e.g. "thirst traps."

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by alistairSH on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @12:48PM (#33010130)
That's probably true, but as somebody on the other end of the political spectrum, I'm not sure it matters that much if the reason is actually "because Jesus" or really "Jesus is just an excuse". Either way, voters and the politicians they elect self-identify as conservative Christian while ramming through policies that are largely not the will of the people (at a national level).
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Der_Einzige on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @12:37PM (#33009989)
What's funny is that Latinos are turning away from the pope and toward protestant evangelism due to Catholicism being precieved as being too liberal.

Also, because white identification from Latinos is skyrocketing.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by ladyattis on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @10:17AM (#33008235)
The irony is that Saint Augustine said prostitution was a necessary evil. So it just seems like modern moralists have refused to operate within the real world where some things we find repugnant are legal and protected.
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by circlefavshape on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @10:53AM (#33008673)
It'd be really interesting to study sexual repression in chimps or bonobos. Might have some underlying game-theoretic roots, and not actually be unique to humans
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by lazide on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:34AM (#33007730)
Hardly a uniquely American thing.
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by colpabar on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:14AM (#33007504)
This theory goes out the window as soon as you turn on a television and see the programming and commercials people watch.
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by jrm4 on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:16AM (#33007515)
Nope. This confirms it.

"Sex" as fine as long as it's not too explicit and mostly not actually about sex, but about keeping you insecure to buy stuff.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by pcthrowaway on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:55AM (#33007969)
Everything in the world is ultimately about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power.

- Oscar Wilde

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by nicwolff on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @10:25AM (#33008319)
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Bakary on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:36AM (#33007758)
The French writer Houellebecq had a pretty compelling explanation for this. With religious norms ebbing away or being transformed (even among right-wingers), sexuality becomes another market parallel to the standard economic one. This was always the case, but the shifting norms speed up and formalize the process. All else being equal, in a scenario where sexuality exists but restrictive norms don't, the natural conclusion is that people with sexual capital will have a rich and varied sexual life whereas those without much appeal in that spectrum will only know lifelong frustration. This mirrors economic inequality in a surprisingly close fashion: desperate swiping through a dating app for an average person is starting to look a lot like copypasting resumes on a job site.

One consequence of this is that people with little sexual capital will try to recreate norms anyway they can. Therefore we end up with a hodgepodge of ideas, religious or not, that have as their only link to one another the desire to enforce sexual restrictions and quell anxiety surrounding sexual prowess as much as possible. The extreme form of this is the incel desire to legally enforce monogamy and erase women's rights, but the less ambitious equivalents take on the form of the counterrevolution you are describing here.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by LatteLazy on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @12:10PM (#33009636)
>One consequence of this is that people with little sexual capital will try to recreate norms anyway they can. Therefore we end up with a hodgepodge of ideas, religious or not, that have as their only link to one another the desire to enforce sexual restrictions and quell anxiety surrounding sexual prowess as much as possible.

I've never seen this logical jump but it makes perfect sense. Thanks!

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by uneekname on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @09:50AM (#33007916)
Yes 100%. The U.S. has a scary apparatus of control and oppression directed at women, queer, LGBTQ+ folks. Even in the age of the internet, it feels like we take more steps back than forward...