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Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by hef19898 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:16AM (#32971010)
That's why I, and every other enthusiast photographer I know, keep my archive locally, meaning on my laptops hardrive and an external one as backup. You cannot trust any cloud provider to properly maintain your data, and external storage is becoming cheaper every year.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by newZWhoDis on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:29AM (#32971136)
> You cannot trust any cloud provider to properly maintain your data, and external storage is becoming cheaper every year.

Exactly, and setting up a NAS has never been easier.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by reaperducer on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:22AM (#32972200)
For 99% of people, a NAS is overkill. Plug-and-play USB drives get the job done at a fraction of the complexity.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by newZWhoDis on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:09PM (#32972751)
I love having a NAS that replaces Time Machine, Dropbox, iCloud, Netflix, Spotify, Disney plus, Hulu, runs home automation, has my security system on it, etc etc.

People use so many cloud services and having it all private and self-hosted is absolutely amazing. It’s really not that hard to set up either, and there’s little to maintenance outside replacing a failed drive.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by criddell on Sunday September 25, 2022 @01:16PM (#32973528)
People here likely know how to do all that safely, but lots of less technically inclined people end up with their data encrypted and have to choose between starting over or paying a ransom. I have a QNAP device so I follow their subreddit and there's a steady stream of people who have lost everything to ransomware because their NAS was visible from the internet. I follow the standard advice from that subreddit - keep it behind a firewall with UPnP turned off and no ports forwarded to the NAS and never enable MyQNAPCloud (or whatever it's called).
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by newZWhoDis on Sunday September 25, 2022 @01:30PM (#32973708)
Seems like more of a QNAP problem than anything
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by fomine3 on Monday September 26, 2022 @02:59AM (#32980265)
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by sockaddr on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:35PM (#32975896)
Yup. QNAP software quality (and hardware) is complete garbage. I’ve off and on tried to incorporate them into my “system” and they always let me down. You’re putting everything at risk using one of their boxes.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by type-r on Sunday September 25, 2022 @01:10PM (#32973457)
I vastly prefer content be cloud based. Ever since Spotify came out, I've never downloaded music illegally again -- it's just so much better and more convenient. Can't imagine going back to what.cd days and having to download and maintain a music collection manually.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by newZWhoDis on Sunday September 25, 2022 @01:32PM (#32973736)
Sure, but then Netflix removed stargate on a whim and one of my favorite shows went poof.

That started me down the path to owning all my own media.

It also didn’t help that iCloud Photos is a privacy nightmare.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by haidev on Sunday September 25, 2022 @02:31PM (#32974419)
Mind sharing your setup, I’d love to replicate it. Thanks
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by newZWhoDis on Monday September 26, 2022 @11:35PM (#32991307)
8 bay synology with 60TB usable, multiple docker containers running for tools as part of my setup.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by pronoiac on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:43PM (#32975241)
One benefit of a NAS: my data's robust against any single drive dying, which is something that's happened to me, friends, and family.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by nobodyandproud on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:50PM (#32973213)
A toaster box NAS with hotswap drives, RAID, and support for Android and iOS is a reality.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by iLoveOncall on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:14AM (#32971538)
> You cannot trust any cloud provider to properly maintain your data

I trust any cloud provider a lot more than my lazy self.

> and external storage is becoming cheaper every year

Sure, but electricity isn't. At the current price in the UK it seems like running a small NAS would be 10 GBP per month, more than most online storage solutions.

That is without counting the initial investment of buying the NAS, the cost of maintaining it (if I have to spend an hour a month on maintenance, that's $1000+ a year of time wasted), the footprint of the NAS, the noise, the heat, etc.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by pixl97 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:19AM (#32971589)
Why not both.

A backup in one place isn't a backup. The 3, 2, 1 rule and all.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by iLoveOncall on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:23AM (#32971616)
Of course, but then my solution will be an external drive, not a NAS.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by ghaff on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:49AM (#32972493)
Yeah. I have a NAS for other purposes but redundant external USB drives is the easiest solution. You can even periodically make a clone and store it somewhere else.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by ocdtrekkie on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:25AM (#32971628)
It sounds like you know... very little on the topic. My NAS requires no maintenance, it makes no sound while running, and costs maybe pennies to run.

Meanwhile, there hasn't been a cloud provider without massive reliability or data loss issues. My NAS has better uptime than Amazon, Microsoft, or Google.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by iLoveOncall on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:54AM (#32971901)
> My NAS requires no maintenance

So you took it out of the shipping box, plugged it to power, and pressed the power button, and everything was up and running?

And since then you haven't had to update any software on it, reboot it, unplug and replug an ethernet cable, shut it down and opened it to add storage, etc.?

> it makes no sound while running

Looking at a basic NAS on Synology shows that it's around 20 dB, which is admittedly very little, but is not 0.

> and costs maybe pennies to run

Again, looking at the same NAS and using my actual price per kWH, it's around $10 a month.

> there hasn't been a cloud provider without massive reliability or data loss issues

My searches haven't turned up any article about a data loss from any of the 3 big cloud providers. Even the story here, while scary, is just about compressed files, not originals.

---

I'm not denying that a NAS has advantages (the fact that it's a lot more than just a data backup), but in the context of backing up files, it's not at all convenient compared to using online solutions.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by tagawa on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:51PM (#32973231)
It’s not big three but Canon announced cloud image/video loss a couple of years ago: https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-updates-on-the-status-of-i...
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by SECProto on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:53AM (#32971894)
Their estimate of £10/month seems reasonable to me – that's basically 1 or 2 kWh of electricity per day (can't find current UK electricity rates). Is your NAS under 40W power draw?

> costs maybe pennies to run.

Pennies per hour, per day, or per month?

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by tpxl on Sunday September 25, 2022 @02:50PM (#32974640)
My RPi 4b runs on a 18W power supply, which would put it at 432Wh per day if running at max load (It doesn't, it idles at <3W most of the time). Any arm NAS is going to have a similar power draw, and you really should pay attention to the power draw when choosing a NAS.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by SECProto on Sunday September 25, 2022 @07:22PM (#32977503)
What about the storage devices (the S in NAS)? My external HDD (just for reference) has an AC adaptor that outputs 12V at 1.5A, so that's another 18W. And most people who care enough about storage to have a NAS have multiple disks...

I'm not saying it isn't under 40W - as you note, if it's idling properly, it's pretty easy to have a NAS including disks under 10W idle. But the electricity cost is not negligible when you are running something 24/7. Even 10W24hr30day is 7.2kWh per month, and most places cant count on 8c/kWh electricity anymore.

> My RPi 4b runs on a 18W power supply, which would put it at 432Wh per day

Which would be 13 kWh per month. If we're comparing to monthly fees for cloud storage, it's important to look at the same time frame.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by tpxl on Monday September 26, 2022 @06:05AM (#32981225)
> What about the storage devices (the S in NAS)?

I have two SSDs on it that are powered by the RPi itself, so the whole package is < 18W. Also, SSDs use way less power than HDDs.

> Which would be 13 kWh per month. If we're comparing to monthly fees for cloud storage, it's important to look at the same time frame.

Yes, running at max load. A more realistic load will be 3W/hr -> 72W/day -> 2kWh/month. That would put it at ~0.3€/month at a realistic load and ~1€/month at max load (0.15€/kWh where I live).

You also have to take into account there's other stuff running on such "NASes", like the PiHole, a git server, a plex server, which are going to cost you separately if you need them. On the other hand, my setup cost me ~300€ (RPi, charger, drives, USB-SATA adapters), which buys a whole lot of VPS and a whole lot of online storage.

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by SECProto on Monday September 26, 2022 @07:50PM (#32990130)
Yes, SSDs would certainly help cut your power load down significantly! My system has 3 HDDs and it's a fairly small NAS compared to many - SSDs are prohibitively expensive once your storage needs get above a couple TBs.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by madiator on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:30AM (#32971147)
What will you do if there is a fire and you lose your laptop and the external hard disk?
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by brycewray on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:14AM (#32971534)
That’s why to use the 3-2-1 method[0].

[0]: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/the-3-2-1-backup-strategy/

Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by hef19898 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:32AM (#32971160)
Law of propability: I had zero dataloses due to fire, some data loss due to loosing a thumb drive backup and some data losses due to cloud storage shennenigans.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by madiator on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:18AM (#32971579)
Hmm. I highly recommend a three way redundancy as others have mentioned. Put a copy in the cloud or store your harddisks somewhere else.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by hef19898 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:07PM (#32976243)
You are right, a cloud storage would make things a tad saver. Personally, I made a point in not putting anything in the cloud, especially none of the big providers, since I value my privacy and just don't trust any o those companies.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by capableweb on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:33AM (#32971163)
Create a new backup from the cloud provider one. Vice-versa if the cloud provider backup gets lost. Chances of loosing both at the same are minuscule.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by retrac on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:49PM (#32973199)
For the really important digital stuff (almost 30 years of family digital photography and video and some paperwork) I have a rotating backup schedule. Two of the drives in the rotation stay at my mother's place. Nothing fancy and it's mostly when I can bother to remember. About once a year or so. Still, some peace of mind.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by Pxtl on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:55AM (#32971365)
I do both, personally. Have everything on my HD and on the Google cloud. That seems like an appropriate level of redundancy.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by iforgotpassword on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:49AM (#32971303)
A photo book doesn't sound much better for that either.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by shaky-carrousel on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:00AM (#32971403)
Have a backup somewhere else, of course.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by flatiron on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:45PM (#32973150)
As an enthusiast photographer with a lot of inner circle friends: we encrypt and backup to cloud. 0 degradation.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by dv35z on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:12PM (#32975570)
Can you share some specifics on the setup? Trying to do something similar. Haven’t tried it yet, but MacOS can create encrypted “sparse images”, which can be mounted and contain files. I’d like find to a better way, especially something that could stand the test of some time (10 years seems reasonable).
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by flatiron on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @07:31AM (#32993960)
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by emkoemko on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:01PM (#32975436)
what happens when your house floods, burns down etc? you need to keep another backup off site somewhere, i keep it at my parents house just in case.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by Finnucane on Sunday September 25, 2022 @02:48PM (#32974622)
Now imagine you are old like me and got your first camera in 1972, and still have all the film.
Re:Users reporting artifacts appearing in old images stored ... by tlavoie on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:45PM (#32979169)
There are services that will take your film, and get you a pile of images back. I did that some years ago, as my folks had hundreds of slides.