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Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by _Algernon_ on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:24AM (#32435219)
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by alphachloride on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:28AM (#32435862)
I tried this debloater, but it debloated my ability to play video games that I like. And debloated the luxury of not having to drop to the command line to fix many of my problems. Also debloated the ability to run some very convenient day to day software.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Zhyl on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:07AM (#32436109)
When did you do this? Linux has gotten better over the last few years on almost all of those counts.

https://ProtonDB.com

https://areweanticheatyet.com

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by TheCapeGreek on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:48AM (#32436657)
I was a proton user for about 5 years. Highly recommend it. But it's not perfect.

Proton is great, but getting non-steam games on it is about as fiddly as the rest of Wine/Lutris/Crossover/etc. Especially with older games, alternate launchers, etc.

If you're fine with having a slightly smaller selection of games (mostly AAA suffers), then it's great. If you're into mod-heavy games, Windows still fares better IMO.

I put Win11 on my new machine to get more bang for buck with gaming, but I despise the OS in its current state. Purely from a DE UX perspective it doesn't seem very productive with its more limited shortcuts.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Zhyl on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:52AM (#32436680)
For mods etc it's definitely still nascent, but is exactly the sort of area which has smart problem solvers working on it. I've already seen mod helper apps for minecraft and elder scrolls popping up. There will be more.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by y42 on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:18AM (#32436171)
That's what I'm hearing since 20 years.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Zhyl on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:36AM (#32436274)
Since the release of Proton in 2018 and the subsequent release of the Steam Deck, the difference is night and day.

If your last experience was 20 years ago I would sincerely recommend looking into it again.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by wruza on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:57AM (#32436360)
Difference in what exactly?

I could give it a try (not gp but periodically interested), but not sure if my GSync display will work correctly. Last time I tried desktop linux, it couldn’t decide which video driver sucks more after another update, and that was on a pretty dumb graphics card. Thinking of something deeply proprietary like GSync I don’t even know if it’s worth trying.

And I’m not a linux newbie, used it and freebsd since around 2000 on daily basis periodically. It is amazing, but just like Linus, “I still need desktop” that allows me to play my hardware. So when there is a >$100 graphics card I resort to windows + msys2 by default.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by kemotep on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:44AM (#32437024)
I have been playing Elden Ring just fine on Linux. At launch, I was worried about it and installed Windows just to play the game. After a while I tried it on Linux and the experience is almost 100% identical in terms of performance.

Part of your issue is having to wrangle with Nvidia drivers. I am just using the default open source driver for AMD that comes built into the kernel and the experience is seamless. I know the nightmare of getting graphics on Linux working right which is why I avoid Nvidia.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Zhyl on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:50AM (#32436673)
With my example above (Proton) it has had a transformative effect on how many games are playable on Linux and how easy it is to play them.

Prior to 2018, there were only a handful of native ports, skewed towards indie games. Now 4,582 are classified by Valve as being 'Verified or playable', with 73% of the top 100 games on steam having an out-of-the-box-flawless experience and a further 14% that will work with some tweaks.

Steam baked this new technology into their client, so the installation process for a Windows game on Linux is identical to Windows (click 'Install' then play. There is one additional popup to inform the user that a translation layer is being used).

In addition to this, Easy Anti-Cheat and Battleye have now (as of Nov 2021) announced anti-cheat support for Proton - both technologies require the developers to enable support either with tweaks (EAC) or by emailing for the supplier to enable support (battleye).

And that's only gaming. In the last 12 years (with the 20 year limit specified by OP) we have seen a transformation in web technologies which have moved from proprietary codecs and add-ons to open standards. Video, streaming and all other things that Windows users take for granted are now available on Linux. This also means that the trend in apps moving to electron also implies that by-and-large Linux is also functional (with notable exceptions e.g. Discord audio).

There's also been a large development of drivers included in the kernel, most peripherals including game controllers etc all now work out of the box. Bluetooth and Wifi - the traditional enemies of Linux users, now work flawlessly and don't come up at all in support requests anymore. AMD drivers have improved, even Nvidia have open-sourced the kernel-land components of their proprietary driver which will help the development of nouveau and other open source alternatives (plus make the Nvidia driver much easier to install and maintain in server set ups, which I think was their goal).

Vulkan was released in 2016 which has driven a whole new raft of graphics capability, providing a strong alternative to the clunky OpenGL. Wayland is making serious progress against X, with Gnome-wayland and KDE-wayland both becoming default on some distros. Valve also have a minimalist wayland compositor that is used in Game Mode on the steam deck.

And that isn't even to mention the plethora of usability improvements to Desktop environments or helper apps such as Heroic, Lutris, Protonup, Nobara which have improved the Linux desktop experience immeasurably.

So yes, in short a lot has changed. When I hear someone say 'I have heard the same for 20 years' they are either ignorant or ignoring the progress that has been made in bad faith.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by wruza on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:29AM (#32436909)
All this progress is nice, no sarcasm. But I still get confused when my 2-3 year old experiences get written off as ignorance or bad faith, never mentioning the issues I had or how to deal with them as a user, and never explaining details I asked about.

If you know about gsync and/or fps tax on linux, I’d be glad to trust and try. Otherwise this comment looks like yet another marketing booklet that doesn’t address any of my doubts and creates no reason to find out, cause last few times I fell for, it was the waste of time.

Edit: I don’t want to downplay this tech, you or anything else. Currently I just want to play Witcher 3 with gsync and have no time for fixing the issues longer than 10 minutes under my expertise.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Zhyl on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:46AM (#32437035)
You asked about what I meant exactly, so I told you.

And for what it's worth, I'm not writing off your concerns as ignorant or bad faith, but aimed at OP's "That's what I'm hearing since 20 years". That comment is either ignorant or just trying to bash Linux from a point of prejudice.

I have no experience with the issues you raise so I'm unable to address them specifically.

It is still the case that if you have recent bad experience with Linux then Windows may still be the best option for you.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by wruza on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:15AM (#32438109)
Ah, I lost the thread and misread that part of your comment, sorry!
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by saiya-jin on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:08AM (#32436775)
> And debloated the luxury of not having to drop to the command line to fix many of my problems.

are you sure this is covered?

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Zhyl on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:59AM (#32437152)
Yep, there's far more GUIs and desktop support for tasks than in days of yore.

There's definitely still a mindset that the command line is much easier from a documentation/support point of view which means that forum responses and tutorials will still refer to the command line a lot.

However, compared to when I started in 2011 there isn't a need to use the terminal like there was back then. The terminal is only really needed if you're doing something new or niche

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by ta8903 on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:22AM (#32437410)
Something about this cookie-cutter smug response makes me nostalgic for a decade ago where you'd see posts like this on every forum every time Linux was mentioned.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by AnonCoward42 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:07AM (#32435437)
Since Ubuntu tries to force snap onto (new) users, I do not recommend it for any new user. Sure, you can disable any of that and use flatpak instead, but it seems Canonical doesn't really want that.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by geokon on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:50AM (#32436004)
Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu? Or was that a one-off for Firefox?

Debian is a nice snapless alternative bc it'll generally run anything meant for Ubuntu. The only major downside is no PPAs

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by j1elo on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:00AM (#32436733)
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by geokon on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @03:01AM (#32493160)
Seems to be about the precious release. Hope it still holds to their latest release as well
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by cassepipe on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:19AM (#32436487)
Ditched Windows when it was still Windows 8.1 for Linux Mint. I am still on Linux Mint and I have it installed on all my machines. Works out of the box. Not resources hungry. Helpful community on IRC. Good looking if you ask me. It also acts as a good filter against Ubuntu's experiments while benefiting from its widespread adoption. Never looked back.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by hackerfromthefu on Saturday August 13, 2022 @08:23AM (#32449228)
I used to enjoy mint as well, however I heard some bad things about the security or lack of. But the usability and general polish was excellent.

Does anyone have up to date knowledge on mint's security situation?

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by simion314 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:17AM (#32435484)
Did flatpack improved? Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack because it was not possible and I my quick search found no examples. Personally snap helped me in setting up some stuff on a server (pdftk) I am not a big fan though, could be done better IMO, flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by AnonCoward42 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:33AM (#32435574)
> Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack

For new users the CLI stuff is usually less important. I don't categorically hate snap, but for new users it's bad long-term, too, since it is only controlled by Canonical and therefore a bad reliance. Nobody can add repositories for snap beside Canonical.

If you are an avid CLI user I recommend using containers instead of snap. This way you can even keep the sandbox with dotnet for example.

> flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality.

However it is not controlled by RedHat (and also not solely developed by them). At least everyone can add repositories to flatpak. Which is probably my biggest gripe with snap.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by simion314 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:52AM (#32435661)
About containers- I would prefer say when I go to a CLI project webpage to download 1 file, now it is a snap and it just works so I can test/evaluate the application. I am not intrested in a repository like flatpack just in going directly to the source and getting the file I need.

Anyway IMO flatpack and snap are different things, you can't just tell people to replace one with the other. AppImage could have been better but is ahrd to improve if there is no big money behind to force push things.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by vetinari on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:14AM (#32436144)
Flatpak does not require repositories; you can install flatpak app from an archive, exactly like deb/apt or rpm/dnf. Repositories are a convenience.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by simion314 on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:48AM (#32436659)
I know, I was trying to express that I don't care that snap does not offer support third party repositories.

Btw if you or anyone knows, does any of thios tech solves the issue where your system has an old glibc and you want to try some new app/game that needs a new glibc? For a video game performance is important access to GPU driver is needed. I had a bad experience with a game that updated and stopped working and from my reading there is no way to have 2 glibc on your system(complex shit about how executables and libraries loading works).

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by vetinari on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:21AM (#32437403)
All container systems are self-contained; they can have glibc (or musl, or any other libc) they want.

In flatpak, the glibc is part of the runtimes; i.e. org.(freedesktop|gnome|kde).Platform. This allows you to run apps on old CentOS/RHEL that you could not natively. Or you can have runtime-less package or use your own runtime, where you put libraries you want. Similarly with snap, you have core18 or core20 runtimes (that correspodents to ubuntu 18.04 or ubuntu 20.04).

Drivers are more interesting. GPU driver has two parts - kernel mode, that shuffles prepared command buffers between userspace and hardware, does mode switching, etc. -- and user mode, which is shared library that implements user APIs like OpenGL or Vulkan, and based on commands from these APIs builds commands buffers, that are then sent to kernel part. The user-mode part may or may not be compatible with multiple versions of the kernel part; the AMD and Intel drivers usually are, as the kernel driver is part of the kernel tree and the user mode driver has to work with any kernel it is run under. Nvidia on the other hand assumes that both user mode and kernel mode are in sync, so packaging specific user mode driver version into container might be problematic.

Flatpak usually ships latest (n or n-1) Mesa and keeps Nvidia driver in sync with the installed kernel mode driver. They are shipped as addons to runtimes.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by LtWorf on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:26AM (#32436221)
CLI is important for everyone. Because when you ask for help to anyone, they will have no clue on how to do it on gnome and will just do it on the CLI.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by bogota on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:32AM (#32435251)
I mean if we are nitpicking ubuntu is pretty bloated you should compile your own os from scratch.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by josefx on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:10AM (#32436431)
Getting rid of snap is already a good first step. I know, I know, snap is great, after all who doesn't want to fill up their primary disk with several full copies of chrome?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by m_mueller on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:37AM (#32435275)
But only by shining sunlight onto your SSD!
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by nousermane on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:28AM (#32435863)
I understand you're being sarcastic, but there are plenty of intermediate options between "use Ubuntu" and "chisel transistors from a rock". In particular, if you want to dab into comping your OS, Gentoo is a good start. Or, if you want to go a bit deeper right away, Linux From Scratch (LFS) project has you covered.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by BrandoElFollito on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:41AM (#32435945)
Having used Gentoo and LFS, it is good to install it once to understand how Linux works but long term it is annoying.

Arch is a better middle ground IMO.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by filchermcurr on Friday August 12, 2022 @10:57AM (#32439590)
Hmm. I actually had the opposite experience. I've been using Gentoo for decades now and haven't found it to be problematic at all. What did you find annoying about it long-term?

I tried Arch and found the divide between distribution packages and AUR to be strange. I assume distribution packages are trustworthy, but a lot of things aren't available there, so you have to use AUR. But my understanding is that AUR is all user contributed and unvetted, so it's essentially like the olden days of downloading an exe and hoping for the best. Unless you go to the effort of scrutinizing every script, I guess.

Updates seem to be hit or miss too. I had some AUR packages that suddenly failed with circular dependency issues and later a full system update made the machine unbootable, which wasn't tons of fun. That's when I went back to Gentoo. :P

To be fair, though, I stopped using Arch after about a couple of months. I could be remembering things wildly incorrectly when it comes to the package management stuff. Unbootable update, though, I remember vividly!

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by BrandoElFollito on Saturday August 13, 2022 @04:09AM (#32447862)
> What did you find annoying about it long-term?

I used Gentoo around 2002 or earlier and it was everytime an adventure to emerge anything, mostly due to the time it was taking. A kernel rebuild was taking hours.

I was not interested in fine-tuning the binaries so I was emerging with the default configuration, which makes it more or less equivalent to installing something from a repo.

The immense advantage of Gentoo is that you had to install it from the very scratch and it gave you finally an understanding of what was going on, instead of just next next next on install screens. I had everyone from my team go though an installation just for that.

> and found the divide between distribution packages and AUR to be strange

Wasn't this the same thing with Gentoo, where there would be "official" sources, and then the others. With colliding names? (it may have been another distro, sorry if this is the case - my memory is not that good 20 years back). I know that it took me a while to understand that philosophy (but again, maybe it was not Gentoo)

> To be fair, though, I stopped using Arch after about a couple of months.

After having had used Debian/Ubuntu for years on my server, I got fed up with the upgrade cycle and moved to Arch a year or so ago. I did not have any problems and the documentation is top notch. I use my server in a very basic way: an Arch installation, then docker and borg and this is pretty much it. Everything I run is in docker containers (except for borg (backup) for more or less sane reasons - probably less than more)

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by javajosh on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:17AM (#32436165)
I've been considering Alpine for my laptop. Minimal=good.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by BrandoElFollito on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:41AM (#32436622)
Alpine is not a general use OS. It is intended for containers and while it might be possible to use it on a laptop you will probably have plenty of problems with its use of libraries.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by derekbaker783 on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:02AM (#32437183)
Friggin MUSL
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by KronisLV on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:02AM (#32435417)
I think this references this XKCD, in case anyone is curious: https://xkcd.com/378/
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by james-redwood on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:39AM (#32435286)
Windows makes Ubuntu look like Puppy Linux
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Bancakes on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:41AM (#32435295)
Uboot + yocto
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by ale42 on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:51AM (#32435351)
Thanks, I was thinking U-Boot was for embedded only... but I see that it has even a UEFI version!
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by sitzkrieg on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:43AM (#32435612)
too bloated, multiboot2 header and buildroot
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by w-ll on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:44AM (#32435310)
Serious question, is Ubuntu still including that Amazon spyware?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by nixcraft on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:12AM (#32435460)
No. That was removed a long time ago https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/1.443

Edit: Ubuntu version 18.04.xx (point release) or 20.04.xx and above does not contain the Amazon web app.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Biganon on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:55AM (#32436350)
I'm a heavy Linux user, but please keep comments like this one on reddit. This is a waste of time and energy. No, you can't just convince your employer to suddenly use Ubuntu. That's not how the real world works.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:40AM (#32436615)
The most popular Linux distribution, aka Android, is full of bloatware that is very hard to uninstall. And, unlike with Windows, you can't install a debloater, debloaters are forbidden.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by system2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:40AM (#32435292)
Good luck running any business software on it.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by legulere on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:48AM (#32435341)
Newer business software all runs on the web. Old business software may not even run on current windows machines.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by namdnay on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:25AM (#32435527)
Office web is fine for day to day use, but not appropriate for anyone in finance/accounting/project management who will need to use Excel heavily
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by greazy on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:51AM (#32435659)
I use excel heavily, librecalc is as good or better than excel. It has near 1:1 function compatibility. The exception are macros but MS seem to be slowly phasing them out.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by vetinari on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:11AM (#32436132)
It is not just VBA. LO Calc is still missing Excel Tables functionality, which is a biggie. It was added to Excel 15 years ago! It also doesn't have equivalent of PowerQuery/PowerPivot/PowerMap equivalent, which appeared in Excel in 2010-2013 timeframe.

So LO Calc is OK for basic spreadsheets, but any power user will gravitate to Excel due to functionalities.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by greazy on Monday August 15, 2022 @02:47AM (#32466577)
Good news, Pivot tables were added in v6.2. And there's an extension that provides similar support for PowerQuery. Tables do exist in LO calc.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by vetinari on Monday August 15, 2022 @10:38AM (#32470247)
I was talking PowerPivot, not pivot tables. LO Calc pivot tables are at Excel 2003 level. Well, there's a reason why it was redone in 2007.

If by extension that provides similar support for PowerQuery you mean QueryConnector, then no. QueryConnector is similar to the MS Query, not to the PowerQuery. And MS Query was Excel built-in, not extension...

Tables do not exist in LO calc. Dataranges do (and imported excel files with tables are converted to dataranges). Dataranges do not have functionality like Tables do. You cannot even create above mentioned pivot table from a datarange, only from named range or selection.

I even had to google how to create them (the build-in help didn't... help), after I've seen that the import did create something, and not just convert to named ranges as it used to. So much for discoverability.

---

This is not to put down LibreOffice Calc or anything. It is about being honest where the weaknesses are, and how to address them. Sweeping problems under the carpet won't address them, and Calc won't become better.

Also, Excel is the crown jewel of MS Office. Not Word, not Powerpoint, but Excel. Of course it is best of the best that money can buy and competing with it is not easy. But 15 years? Come on.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by greazy on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @07:28PM (#32490393)
Yes I see now what you mean. The Power* family of tools is quiet powerful.

I'm now reconsidering if I'm a power user of spreadsheets! For these extra features I'll use R as it's more powerful and reproducible.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by once_inc on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:05AM (#32435730)
You can use Python macros with libreoffice, right?

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Macros/Python_Guide/Intr...

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by tinus_hn on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:38AM (#32435927)
That’s nice, but not very helpful if you’re trying to use an existing sheet that has VBA macros.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by _dain_ on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:56AM (#32436355)
>It has near 1:1 function compatibility.

You're kidding, right? LibreOffice Calc does not have:

- tables

- powerquery

- dynamic array formulae

- XLOOKUP, LET, FILTER, and the rest of the extremely useful new formulae

These four things completely dominate my Excel workflow. Opening Calc is like stepping back into the dark ages.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by philliphaydon on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:39AM (#32436611)
I often think people suggesting things like Libreoffice just open csv files and scroll through then tell everyone else they can do everything in libreoffice.

When you’re a heavy user of excel, almost nothing else compares. Tho Google sheets does give excel a run for its money, because it has scripts (javascript) to do everything else.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by greazy on Monday August 15, 2022 @02:58AM (#32466650)
LO Calc has python scripting. I think you mean power user, I can accept that LO calc is not up to speed for powerusers of Excel.

I'm a heavy user of LO calc, but my usage is of course different from yours. For true data wrangling I use R so this statement. I can't imagine the data wrangling and transformations that I perform in R being done in Excel. Its a nightmare waiting to happen!

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by greazy on Monday August 15, 2022 @02:51AM (#32466604)
Three out of those 4 things aren't functions. I do agree newer functions are missing (such as XLOOKUP) but for most people calc/excel is a high powered calculator and they use it as such. So Calc is perfect replacement. It's not the dark ages, that's an exaggeration.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Biganon on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:53AM (#32436339)
No it's not. It doesn't even support tables and named columns.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by greazy on Monday August 15, 2022 @02:54AM (#32466620)
It definitely supports named columns and I am pretty sure 'tables' as well.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by LtWorf on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:30AM (#32436241)
the reverse exists as well, a lot of jobs can't be done on windows.

Which is why windows ships WSL, to keep people who can't work on windows using it. Better yet, to allow their managers to force them to use windows even though they need linux.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by DarkmSparks on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:43AM (#32435305)
Do you mean Google luck or Microsoft Azure luck?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by system2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:47AM (#32435329)
Nothing cloud. Regular software like Office, Adobe stuff, accounting software, industrial related software, and many more.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by headsoup on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:55AM (#32435374)
You use all of these?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by system2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:12AM (#32435461)
Yes, I have Office (excel heavily), adobe (rush, photoshop, premiere, audition), QuickBooks and Sage 50, some automation software for manufacturing. There are many more that wouldn't work on anything but windows. I am sure many people are the same as me because I see other computer users with their software stack very often.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by DarkmSparks on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:24AM (#32435519)
In that case you probably want a Mac. Its basically the same as ubuntu, but Apple paid the Microsoft taxes.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by system2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:42AM (#32435606)
Mac is not enough although I have a MacBook Pro on my desk sitting and collecting dust. I only use it to test sites with Safari because emulators never give the same result.

I install ubuntu on old laptops to utilize them and as VM on my current windows machine.

Macbook is sluggish (mouse moves) and very limited customizations/options. None of the communication software I use work all at the same time on either on ubuntu nor macos. For example, I use Skype, RingCentral, WhatsApp, Teams, Discord open in one 32" monitor. I must communicate with multiple people everyday for business purposes. I can't fanboy and go for Mac or Ubuntu and ruin my businesses. (I have 4 x 32")

Another monitor has KeePass, putty, and winscp running. If a client sends me an excel file for a reason and it has macros in it, office is the only way to open it. OpenOffice or Libre sucks. I also occasionally update company blogs and must edit photos and videos. Adobe works flawlessly on Windows and has many advantages using it on Windows compared to MacOs edition.

For my security cameras, I use the camera system's only supported windows software. There is no other platform supported. SonicWall VPN sucks on mac and unsupported. I won't spend 2 hours each time VPN fails on Ubuntu. Windows works flawlessly and I tried on Ubuntu. Can't connect to client servers remotely with Ubuntu or crappy mac vpn software called MobileConnect.

I use FreeCad but tried AutoCad in the past, only works on Windows properly. FreeCad sucks on Ubuntu, AutoCad is not supported. This is for my another business unrelated to the other software.

I have more computers than I can count but I am always ending up using Windows for work. To make everything work on one computer, I must use windows. If something new comes up, I won't spend hours and days to try to make it work on Ubuntu or feel sad for not even having it for MacOs.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by namdnay on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:26AM (#32435529)
Office Mac is pretty awful, I really wouldn’t recommend it for anyone who needs to use the full feature set
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by DarkmSparks on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:29AM (#32435869)
Ive had the complete opposite experience.

Office on my M1 macbook air is noticeably more stable and responsive than the dell xps13 bought in January, and the mackbook was like half the price. That XPS is probably the last windows machine we buy ever.

Also most of our employees have fully migrated to libreoffice now.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by vetinari on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:08AM (#32436116)
The GP meant features. Office Mac is missing a great deal of them, like all the Power*/DAX functionality. And even if it has them, they might be half-baked; just to connect to pgsql, you need a paid odbc driver that costs about the half the price of the Office, you cannot use the open source one.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by hackerfromthefu on Saturday August 13, 2022 @08:33PM (#32455125)
Oh dear lord
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by kwanbix on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:24AM (#32435839)
Have you tried CrossOver or Wine?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by NavinF on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:22AM (#32435511)
Yes, that's the kinda software that most office workers use. Programmers are the exception.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by system2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:49AM (#32435649)
Any software developer business founder/entrepreneur uses more than Vim or notepad++. To support a bootstrapped business, the owners end up doing everything, this involves blogging, video editing, even photography if the product is physical. Just-one-software-using developers usually work for a company rather than being independent.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by headsoup on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:18AM (#32438157)
There are open source options that work fine on Linux for most of those though and things like Proton do a pretty amazing job now too. But people have set/complex workflows or existing familiarity that is not so easy to just flick over and that's reasonable.

It's not a "Linux can't do it" problem though.

Business founders/entrepreneurs are not exactly a large part of the userbase either...

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by system2 on Saturday August 13, 2022 @06:12PM (#32454283)
It takes an unnecessary amount of time for to run things on linux that are working comfortably on windows without weird modifications to the operating system. That's the reason why people choose windows.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by bilekas on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:04AM (#32435424)
Regular software while doing "Business" !
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by fl0id on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:17AM (#32435789)
Runs perfectly fine.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by RektBoy on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:52AM (#32435666)
Win10 VMs?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by philliphaydon on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:21AM (#32435507)
Pass. I would rather use windows than ubuntu. But I’ll stick to fedora. That’s the new beez kneez
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by timbit42 on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:48AM (#32437707)
Ubuntu has become quite terrible, especially the Snaps, but Linux Mint is really nice.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by rewgs on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:45PM (#32446131)
Ubuntu Server, once de-Snapped, is a really nice base to install a DE on. Just did that this week with awesome WM and I have zero complaints.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by philliphaydon on Friday August 12, 2022 @11:11PM (#32446561)
The only problem I have with ubuntu server desnapped is let’s encrypt is such a pain now. They force the use of snaps and it’s a manual process to do it without snaps :(