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Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sdoering on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @04:13AM (#32395377)
I agree, but than you have corporate compliance installing an insane amount of Spyware on your device so that a 2021 XPS 13 Dell with a gen 10 Intel is out of battery when only using word within the hour.

Fans spinning all the time and no way of disabling this madness.

Nearly the same for my Mac colleagues. They maybe get 2 hours out of their M1 MBPs unplugged.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by newman314 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @05:18AM (#32395730)
Recently discovered that Infosec has now mandated that all laptops have sleep disabled (the reason given is to be able to do endpoint patching). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day or suck up the cost of keeping the laptop on. /r/maliciouscompliance, here I come I suppose.

Tempted to get one of these: https://us.amazon.com/Vegamax-Button-Ethernet-Internet-Netwo...

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Macha on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:22AM (#32396872)
Yeah, at a previous company, the IT team were complaining about users disabling powernap or shutting down laptops as it meant they wouldn't patch overnight.

But these laptops were in bags, the last thing I wanted was a mac to start a house fire by heating up in a bag, so fuck that.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Torifyme12 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @06:18AM (#32396010)
Your infosec department doesn't know how to stage patches then and should be ashamed.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sdoering on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @05:02PM (#32418423)
They should not be named "sec". It isn't security. It is compliance.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Spooky23 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:31AM (#32396950)
Probably because with work at home there’s no WOL.

We disabled sleep to improve battery life and address a personal safety issue. There are many failure scenarios between various builds of Windows 10 and shitty drivers. Devices often wake up in bags and spin up fans until dead.

Normal scenario is that the battery is dead in the morning. In one case, it melted the compartment material in a bag and was deemed a safety hazard.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by gabrielhidasy on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @09:55AM (#32397957)
So now instead all devices can keep their fans on and melt compartment material bag as nobody would assume the device is that dumb to not sleep when closed. Much better.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by hedora on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @02:30AM (#32408417)
If it's a safety hazard, tell the OEM to repair the entire fleet.

Problem solved.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Spooky23 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @11:40PM (#32421302)
Takes awhile to bring back 20k laptops!
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by alt227 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @07:52AM (#32396617)
>So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day

When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. SSD Boot times these days are mostly under a minute and you get a fresh desktop every time.

EDIT: In fact I am one of the sysadmins which so many seem to despise on here. I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy on all my windows domain networks. It reduces so many support tickets by just actually having machines properly rebooted every night. Without this, people contact IT for glitches and bugs in their system, and when you look at the system uptime it is years!

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Delk on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @10:23AM (#32398407)
I don't care about boot times but I do care about keeping state.

In addition to the obvious browser I typically have an IDE, a few terminal windows, email, a few communication clients (due to internal and customer choices, not mine), and usually one or two database clients open at most times. Some of those restore their state nicely while others don't. Some of the terminal windows have e.g. a particular set of terminals at certain directories because I need to keep track of and work on multiple source repos at the same time.

Starting all of those from scratch every day would indeed be a chore. Perhaps more importantly, having my desktop be the way I left it also automatically reminds me what I was doing and helps continue from where I was.

A fresh desktop every morning would be a misfeature for me and would annoy and frustrate me immensely if forced on me.

I do of course reboot now and then for system updates etc., and I don't mind that.

There might be a decent rationale for forcing a reboot or disabling sleep on non-tech office devices if the staff are technically unskilled, but this is HN, so it's not much of a surprise if people aren't keen.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by kibwen on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:33PM (#32401963)
Seconded. My working state is crucial and keeps me on track. For someone with ADD, needing to overcome the inertia of setting up all my apps just the way I left them every single day would be catastrophic for my productivity. I refuse to reboot more than once a month, and only then if an OS update requires it.

The year is $CURRENT_YEAR, needing to reboot a system should be regarded as a last resort and a relic of the past. No matter how much effort you dump into making apps remember their state when they're closed, it will always be strictly inferior to just dumping RAM to disk.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sovnade on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:07AM (#32396714)
Because I have visual studio open, a solution loaded and organized with all the files I need for this sprint, SSMS with the servers all connected that I need, all my tabs open to see my jira board, support tickets, etc, a notepad doc i was using to take notes on a phone call, my ssh key loaded into pageant, and if my computer reboots, i'm going to forget half of that when it starts back up and lose 30+ minutes trying to get set up again the next day.

edit: i would legitimately quit a company that made me reboot every single night.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by alt227 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:31AM (#32396947)
In our network there are no developers. That would be a different usecase which would require different policies. All tools required by staff are online and autosave everything. This in fact is another reason why proper restarts are enforced nightly, as most browsers with multiple tabs of heavy web apps start misbehaving very quickly. Forcing a nightly shutdown of browsers is an added bonus of proper shutdowns.

Be aware I am in a corporate environment, with all non technical users, and all services online.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sovnade on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @10:52AM (#32398829)
Ok - that makes sense. Obviously being on the dev side of things, I've never worked for a company that didn't have devs (and admins, devops, etc). Sounds like it definitely works in your case.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by aeyes on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:23AM (#32396883)
> I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy

I guess I'll have to add this to my questions to ask at job interviews. Admins like you these days sure try to make our lives as horrible as possible. Corporate anti-virus, DNS interception and policies like these turn my machine into something I constantly want to throw out the window.

All because you are too lazy to ask a person to reboot if the machine has high uptime.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by alt227 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:33AM (#32396963)
Youve taken a lot of liberties and assumptions with my post here. I dont do any of those things you mentioned, only enforce a nightly shutdown.

Nothing to do with laziness. As other people have often mentioned on HN, in the real world of understaffed underbudget corporate IT you need to do what you can to enforce things which make everybodies life easier.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by adament on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @09:41AM (#32397719)
It does not make everybodys lives easier, it makes your life easier by easing the support burden at the cost of making the lives of those who have to live with those policies (marginally?) harder (or more annoying). It is quite a bold claim that those of us who do not shut down our laptops every night have no reason to do so, and you know better than us that it would come with no additional cost to us to do so.

It might very well be that it is preferable to the organization as a whole to sacrifice a bit of productivity everywhere for less burden on IT. But IMHO it should not be a decision which the IT department can make in isolation.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Godel_unicode on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @11:47AM (#32399518)
This is the part that people get wrong about all the ITIL metrics nonsense; they’re all designed by people who don’t have a background in science or experimentation and they never account for confounding factors. For instance, companies I’ve worked for in the past actually conducted rigorous studies of improving quality of life (as opposed to “fewer tickets==good”). They discovered that the number one cause of lower ticket volumes is Shadow IT! Because of course it is.

If you are disabling things by policy, it should be after a discourse with your users and a serious attempt at training. Being a GPO dictator is an anti-pattern.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by copperx on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @11:09AM (#32399067)
Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Policies such as yours are tremendously user hostile, and they are a reflection of the company's culture. I would probably not quit such a company, but I would certainly go rouge by either bringing my own equipment, or reinstalling the OS. If reprimanded, then I would quit.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by abrouwers on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @07:04PM (#32405753)
"everybodies life easier"

I don't think this means what you think it means. I'm not a dev, but a mechanical engineer, and having to shutdown nightly, and reopen things the next morning, would cost the company at least an hour of my work time every week.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Spooky23 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:34AM (#32396974)
Upthread you can see why. High drama developers will tell you that logging out will cost the company $25k a year because previous snowflake has to open notepad and disrupt their flow as they eat breakfast.

The frontline IT guys aren’t able to deal with shit like that, so a draconian policy comes top down.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by hedora on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @02:28AM (#32408401)
I treat each laptop reboot (regardless of reason) as an unexpected crash.

If the laptop crashes more than once a week, I simply won't use it. If I worked at your company, I'd just BYOD, and keep your garbage laptop in a drawer, only booting for compliancy crap (and certainly not leaving it on long enough to download updates).

I've actually done this at a previous job or two. It was fine. Both (large behemoth) companies ended up cratering, at least partially due to chasing away competent employees with boneheaded corporate policies.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sdoering on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @05:19PM (#32418606)
I would. If there wasn't the teeny bit of SSO that means I can't access any relevant work software on a non endpoint managed machine.

Office? Gitlab? Jira? Confluence? Any code at all? Adobe Experience Cloud? Any Google Service? Adobe Creative Cloud? Our Time and Expenses Tooling?

All locked behind SSO with EPM enforced. Additionally nearly all internal resources are only accessible via VPN. And guess what - only usable on EPM devices.

When I started I received a device, SDD encrypted me being root. After being acquired by big corp we now are in compliance world. Parts of that would have come regardless of big corp due to client requirements.

But a lot of this is quite taxing.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Aerroon on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @10:55AM (#32398886)
Because it's not just system boot time that matters. After you do that you then have to launch half a dozen to a dozen applications that all have varying startup times, that will all randomly draw focus during their startup, and some will require you to do logins during all of that.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by tasuki on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @04:33PM (#32403881)
> When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should.

Why should I? Not long ago, my laptop had uptime of over half a year.

[Edit: Oh, "windows domain networks"? I guess perhaps that explains your propensity for rebooting?]

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by aimor on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @07:19AM (#32396373)
I still can't believe they're able to disable "Hibernate", now "Sleep" is at risk? And of course with all the bloat booting takes forever.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by zmmmmm on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @04:55AM (#32395629)
Irony being, one of the biggest benefits for me of the M1 power consumption is that it can run quiet and smooth even with all the corporate spyware on there. It can even run MS teams along side that and docker too which also permanently consumers 100% of one core, while still staying completely silent.

It's crazy to think you have these opposing teams of engineers, the Apple ones working away to optimise like crazy to reduce power consumption and the compliance software teams thinking up new ways to profligately use more.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by smoldesu on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @11:16AM (#32399155)
Sure, but running Docker and Teams will put an M1's CPU at 70c when a similar x86 Linux box would run it at ~40c. Maybe Apple's fan curves are to blame here, but I much prefer a Linux laptop for local dev.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by voltagex_ on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @05:16AM (#32395723)
Why is Docker's VM not idling?
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sudosysgen on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @10:06AM (#32398135)
Because macOS. It's not a container, it's a full on VM.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by raarts on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @12:01PM (#32399717)
I run Docker on M1. Definitely idling. It must be one of the containers. Try running Docker stats to find out which.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by zmmmmm on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @07:32PM (#32406034)
unfortunately it does it even if I kill all the containers. It's a well known issue and they have been circling around with attempted fixes, regressions etc for a long time [1]

[1] https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/6166

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by mgoetzke on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @04:36AM (#32395515)
I am writing this from a M1 MBP with screen at extra full brightness (using vivid) and I can say I get way more than 2 hours from it.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by antihero on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @04:42AM (#32395554)
How much corporate garbage on it, though?
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by speedgoose on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @04:49AM (#32395591)
2 hours on a M1 is beyond corporate garbage. It's like they try to use as much power as possible, perhaps more than one process is stuck in an infinite loop.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Torifyme12 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @06:18AM (#32396012)
Sounds like a shit EDR that's constantly scanning every file
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by sdoering on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @05:23PM (#32418635)
First tool all files every hour. Virus scan on file change. Second tool scans also but I don't yet know the frequency.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by brailsafe on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @05:20AM (#32395743)
Out of curiosity, and aside from Teams which I'm already sadly familiar with, what software is it that you're talking about? Company I work for was just bought by some megacorp, but I'm still using my own 2019 13" MBP for now.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by geraldwhen on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @06:57AM (#32396222)
Mcafee and VMware carbon black can fully consume a computer.
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by washadjeffmad on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @09:22AM (#32397464)
Ask your IT why they're not using JAMF Protect and maybe some light reporting like splunk.

Carbon Black probably needs some adjustments, or they need to spec laptops better. That sounds pretty intense and unnecessary.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by geraldwhen on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @09:45AM (#32397788)
IT is 300-600 people who report to no one in particular.

With those tools running, builds take over an hour if they complete at all. With the tools disabled, builds complete in under a minute.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by zo1 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @09:22AM (#32397457)
Not OP, but here is one... checkpoint.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point

Horrid piece of software. I don't know when this sort of office-abuse became the norm but it makes me very sour about our industry as a whole.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by tfigment on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:38AM (#32397006)
My company has some McAfee and Palo Alto stuff and the cyvera cloud backup software which scans every file every 4 hours but then triggers the other software because of access attempts. Some of these are suites so its 3-4 diferent things (firewall, dlp, antivirus, ...)
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by deergomoo on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @01:26PM (#32400944)
> Palo Alto stuff

Fuck this company, one of my wife’s jobs is BYOD but requires GlobalProtect for their VPN. After the software has been running for a few hours, even disconnected, it just starts chewing CPU cycles and grinds her M1 MacBook to a halt.

The only way to terminate it is via `defaults write` command in the terminal. It’s basically malware.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by brailsafe on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @08:14PM (#32406390)
Sometimes you can work around it and just use the native VPN or TunnelBlick. Did this at a previous corporate gig where the software they used wasn't even available for macs. Gotta be lucky though. By this I mean that usually VPN software just has a default config for some VPN protocol, and if you can find out what that is, you might be able to input the same config and credentials into the TunnelBlick or network settings
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by Fiahil on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @09:51AM (#32397883)
Symantec, Microsoft Defender (this shit is insane), Netskope and ZScaler
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by brailsafe on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:29PM (#32431953)
Msft defender on mac!?
Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by geraldwhen on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @06:56AM (#32396209)
Our macs get admin.

I sudo turn off the garbage and I haven’t been caught yet.

Re:How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core? by mrtranscendence on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @10:35AM (#32398589)
I have admin on my work Mac, but I'm not sure how to turn off the garbage. It's pretty annoying and definitely cuts down on my battery life significantly. Between that and Teams being a battery hog I might only get three hours out of what should be a whole-day machine.