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Re:Router Security by Sakos on Saturday July 30, 2022 @08:40AM (#32286323)
https://www.blackhat.com/us-21/briefings/schedule/#ipvseeyou...

It's based on this talk apparently

> We assume a weak adversary who is remote to the target and has no privileged access. Our privacy attack lies in IPv6 addresses formed via EUI-64, which embed the interface's hardware MAC address in the IPv6 address. While EUI-64 IPv6 addresses are no longer used by most operating systems, they are commonly found in legacy and low-profit-margin customer premises equipment (CPE), e.g., commodity routers connecting residential and business subscribers. Because IPv6 CPE are routed hops (as opposed to IPv4 NATs), we can discover their MAC address via traceroute if they use EUI-64.

> These CPE are frequently all-in-one devices that also provide Wi-Fi. Crucially, the MAC address of the Wi-Fi interface is often related to the MAC address of the wide area interface, e.g., a +/-1 offset. These Wi-Fi MACs are broadcast (the 802.11 BSSID) and captured by wardriving databases that also record their physical location. By correlating the MAC addresses embedded in IPv6 home router addresses with their Wi-Fi address counterpart, we can remotely geolocate them, fusing virtual data with meatspace.

They have a tool that lets you check a given IPv6 address: https://github.com/6int/IPvSeeYou

Re:Router Security by ikiris on Saturday July 30, 2022 @08:46AM (#32286358)
Heh, I was dubious but this is a perfectly valid explanation for why you should not embed phy addresses in IPs.

That said, it's absolutely toxic to be telling people to just turn off IPv6. Completely makes me lose trust in the rest of the site's content.

Re:Router Security by Sakos on Saturday July 30, 2022 @11:26AM (#32287533)
A source link to a very thorough article at Tom's Guide (https://www.tomsguide.com/news/home-gateway-geolocation-bh21) is provided close to the top of the page (in the short list). That guide links to the Black Hat presentation.

> For years, turning off IPv6 (IP version 6) was on the long list below, but as of August 2021, I think it belongs here on the short list too. Very very few people need it and it was recently disclosed that there is a possible security issue with it.

I think you're being a bit too accusative. Every suggestion has sources to back it up if you want to see why something is recommended.

Re:Router Security by jaclaz on Saturday July 30, 2022 @08:55AM (#32286417)
>These Wi-Fi MACs are broadcast (the 802.11 BSSID) and captured by wardriving databases that also record their physical location.

I am not sure to understand, while this is in theory doable, do these "captured by wardriving" databases exist?

And do they cover "everywhere"?

Re:Router Security by veonik on Saturday July 30, 2022 @09:18AM (#32286559)
A long while back now Google came out saying[0] they did use their Google Maps Street View cars to also collect wifi+location information. It wouldn't surprise me if they augmented this info with data they receive through Google services running on Android phones too.

So my bet is, yeah, they do exist and they do pretty much cover everywhere.

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-ad...

Re:Router Security by Lukas_Skywalker on Saturday July 30, 2022 @09:57AM (#32286855)
Google even has a geolocation API [1] where you can send the BSSID and signal strength of the access points in your range and it calculates your position.

[1]: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/geolocation...

Re:Router Security by megous on Saturday July 30, 2022 @12:27PM (#32288027)
Mozilla offers a similar API. Kinda funny for a "privacy" company.
Re:Router Security by jaclaz on Saturday July 30, 2022 @09:37AM (#32286718)
I see now, thanks.

Though I believe that if Google is the adversary, they have ways (only a guess, but some kind of correlation between GPS location on mobile while connected to Wi-Fi and http requests could be one) that make the "wardriving database" unneeded, I mean, there should be a constant updating of this database, or it would turn out pretty much obsolete soon.

Re:Router Security by toast0 on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:31PM (#32288600)
The database may have originally been filled by wardriving, but it can be updated by their distributed agents (phones with location services turned on).
Re:Router Security by alexwasserman on Saturday July 30, 2022 @03:44PM (#32289666)
It’s called Wi-Fi Positioning System: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_positioning_system

There are both open and proprietary versions.

I think early iPhones used it (with cell site data too), before they had GPS. Can’t remember their name for it.

But, all big populated areas are mapped and understood.

See Hybrid Positioning too, which is combining all available data, including Wi-Fi, to aid in rapid and accurate location information: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_positioning_system

Re:Router Security by h4waii on Saturday July 30, 2022 @11:07AM (#32287354)
Wigle.net