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Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:30AM (#32178516)
Okay, so why is the EU seemingly able to regulate big tech? It's a capitalist continent.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by onepointsixC on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:27AM (#32179059)
Because big tech is overwhelmingly not European, thus there's little blow back to trade actions. Suggest a policy that may harm the balance sheet of the German Automotive sector and you'll see it killed on the spot.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by malermeister on Thursday July 21, 2022 @12:16PM (#32181177)
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by schumpeter on Thursday July 21, 2022 @04:26PM (#32184544)
To the parent’s point, VW was saying for recent years they were going fully electric. This EU bill doesn’t harm them. In fact, it likely helps them against slower-moving competitors.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by malermeister on Thursday July 21, 2022 @04:41PM (#32184741)
It might not hurt VW, but the EUs automotive industry is more than just VW. A lot of it is very specialized suppliers to bigger companies that do stuff like the best gear box etc. Those will be hurt for sure.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by ls15 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @04:40PM (#32184718)
Does banning new combustion engines after 2035 really harm the manufacturers? To me it looks like they are all moving to electric.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by malermeister on Thursday July 21, 2022 @04:43PM (#32184762)
A lot of the industry is suppliers to manufacturers, not just manufacturers themselves. Those will be hurt for sure as their whole business model is being the best at some specialized part of a combustion car.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by adrr on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:59AM (#32178767)
Because they are US companies. Which is the main reason the US won't regulate them. EU is all about being anti-competitive, look at Airbus, InBev or LVMH. As long as it's their own companies being anti-competitive. Apple isn't even the market leader in EU, and EU is going to regulate them. That is anti-competitive. Let's go regulate the 2nd place company.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by HWR_14 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:32AM (#32179142)
What difference does them being a US company make? They're listed on the NASDAQ? The CEO lives in the US? Seriously, what does it mean to be a US company?

> look at Airbus, InBev or LVMH.

I did. Google's EU division had more revenue than any of those companies worldwide. It seems like Google's EU division (which is an EU company owned entirely by Google) is a bigger EU company than any of those three.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by hpkuarg on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:52AM (#32179389)
> what does it mean to be a US company?

Easy enough question to answer by looking at the beneficial owners of a company's stock. I'd wager every "US company" as commonly understood is, in addition to being listed on US stock exchanges, headquartered in the US, and having significant operations in the US, is also majority-owned by American citizens.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by HWR_14 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:03AM (#32179525)
Interesting distinction. I'm not sure it's possible to confirm this, but I would be interested in the different firms that were listed.

Specifically, I don't know about AirBus and LVMH, but InBev seems to be primarily owned by American based mutual funds.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:04AM (#32178830)
When I read comments like this on HN, I honestly wonder if the commenter believes this to be true, or if it's rhetoric or maybe trolling.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by leadingthenet on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:39AM (#32179240)
I live in the EU (well, some of the time), and I honestly believe that what the above commenter says is at least partially true. The EU are being protectionist, and usually only pass these types of regulations in sectors they have little to offer in the way of competition. I eagerly await the moment they target Airbus or car manufacturers.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:44AM (#32179314)
The EU is categorically less protectionist than the US, and is one of the most open economies in the world.

If you honestly believe otherwise, you are intentionally misinformed.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by aantix on Thursday July 21, 2022 @12:56PM (#32181781)
Sample size of one.

We hosted a German foreign exchange student.

He was very aware of famous Youtubers, utilize Google for searches, watched Tiktok constantly. He owned the latest iPhone. His English was amazing.

In certain respects, I wasn't sure if we ever offered him a radically different experience than when he experienced living in Hannover.

Big (U.S.) Tech was very embedded in his life.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by onepointsixC on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:25AM (#32179037)
It's blatantly true. Just compare the fines of VW who explicitly systematically cheated emissions tests on diesel vehicles to EU fines on Google... for recommending google products on google websites. Services are the one piece of trade between the US and EU which the US is a net exporter. Considering the number of fines and taxes which explicitly target those it's pretty clear what's going on.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:28AM (#32179079)
Do you believe the EU is more protectionist than the US? If so, you are too biased to have a meaningful conversation with.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by onepointsixC on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:00AM (#32179493)
What causes you to perceive the EU to be less protectionist?

The EU precovid had a net positive trade balance with the rest of the world. [1].

The US precovid had a net negative trade balance of nearly $50 Bn a month. [2].

The balance of trade between the US and EU is quite remarkably in the favor of the EU for trade with a "protectionist state ". How do you explain this discrepancy? If the US is so protectionist why are exports as a percentage of its GDP 1.58 times smaller than that of the EU [3][4]?

[1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/d... [2]: https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/us-international-trade-goods-a... [3]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [4]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/B020RE1Q156NBEA

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:08AM (#32179596)
As I replied to safety1st, a trade surplus is not evidence of protectionism. The EU has a comparable (slightly better) Weighted Mean Tariff Rate to the US, and both are the most open large economies in world.

It's unsupportable nonsense to claim otherwise.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by onepointsixC on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:19AM (#32179730)
Tariffs are only *one* means of trade policy. Pretending that they are the end all be all is nonsense. One quick example: France passed a Tax bill which targets only companies with revenues of more than 25 million euros there and 750 million globally. The catch? There's 30 companies which it applies to, but only one which is French[1]. Thus it is officially classified as merely local tax and not a tariff but in effect is a tariff on large foreign companies to give pricing advantages to local French ones. But per your measurement is a zero percentage tariff.

There are plenty of other subsidies and policy making ways to be protectionist.

And if it really were such nonsense to suggest other wise, why can you not explain the discrepancy of the US - EU trade balance. It should be simple.

[1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48947922

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by safety1st on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:50AM (#32179371)
Wait what? The US runs a massive trade deficit with the world because it's extremely open about giving other countries access to its markets. The EU doesn't, in some years it actually runs a surplus. They're not ultra protectionist like China but I was certainly under the impression that they were more so than the US.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by safety1st on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:01AM (#32179501)
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:01AM (#32179509)
A trade surplus is not evidence of protectionism. The most common metric to measure protectionism (in as far as it can be measured statistically) is the Weighted Mean Tariff Rate. Compare the EU at 1.48% to the US at 1.52% - the EU is slightly lower and both are among the lowest in the world, certainly of the large economies.

It's literal misinformation to say that the EU is more protectionist than the US. It was a Trump talking point, and never based in fact.

EU: https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/tariff-rate-appl...

US: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/tariff-rate-appli...

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by onepointsixC on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:11AM (#32179625)
If Weighted Mean Tariff rates are the only measurement for trade that could be true. But it is not. You have subsidies and you have policy and regulations which can cause non market barriers to entry. Case & point: China doesn't have any tariff on American social media companies but simply bans American companies. Per your chosen measurement, that is simply not considered.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by the_cramer on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:33AM (#32179881)
How does Tesla fit in this, building a factory in Brandenburg against "some" public resistance? This case did not seem anti-competitive at all.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by distantsounds on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:30AM (#32179108)
ah yes "anti-competitive" and not "pro consumer"

nice choice of words

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by adrr on Thursday July 21, 2022 @03:47PM (#32183991)
They are different things. Product dumping to get rid of your competition is anti-competitive even though lower priced is pro-consumer.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by ls15 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:31AM (#32179125)
> Apple isn't even the market leader in EU, and EU is going to regulate them.

They have a monopoly on iphones.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by seneca on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:51AM (#32179377)
By this logic every company is a monopoly, as they have a monopoly on their own product.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by Apocryphon on Thursday July 21, 2022 @12:47PM (#32181625)
> Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. Courts look at the firm's market share, but typically do not find monopoly power if the firm (or a group of firms acting in concert) has less than 50 percent of the sales of a particular product or service within a certain geographic area. Some courts have required much higher percentages. In addition, that leading position must be sustainable over time: if competitive forces or the entry of new firms could discipline the conduct of the leading firm, courts are unlikely to find that the firm has lasting market power.

> Obtaining a monopoly by superior products, innovation, or business acumen is legal; however, the same result achieved by exclusionary or predatory acts may raise antitrust concerns.

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by ls15 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:16AM (#32179692)
Most other products cannot run apps. There is no alternative supplier of iOS devices so that people can run the apps that they bought from other companies via the Appstore.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by jltsiren on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:50AM (#32178688)
The primary purpose of the EU is administering a common market that consists of a large number of sovereign states. Each state naturally wants to be protectionist and give domestic businesses advantages over those from other member states. The EU can't allow that, as it would destroy the common market.

As a consequence, the EU has a lot of experience in pushing against powerful interests. It's doing that all the time, and it's also moderately successful at that. While many attempts at regulating giant businesses or forcing member states to do something they don't want ultimately fail, sometimes the EU manages to get things done.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by Cipater on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:34AM (#32178550)
Because big tech is mainly foreign (American) companies to them.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:08AM (#32178866)
Generally because the EU Parliament is far less corrupt than the US Congress.

The US is more of a "corporatocracy" than a real democracy these days.

Congress is even incapable of impeaching a president that tried to overturn an election by force. That's a pretty embarassing state of affairs for American democracy.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by onepointsixC on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:31AM (#32179116)
The EU is more corrupt. All China needed to stop EU statements on Human rights was some investments into Greece and making a few calls[1].

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-un-rights/greece-block...

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by closewith on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:42AM (#32179273)
The EU is not a monolith. Its constituent countries are both more and less corrupt than the US, but the EU requires unanimity for foreign policy decisions, unlike the US enchi isn't beholden to reach State.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by satyrnein on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:27AM (#32179058)
What's the corporate interest in impeaching Trump or not? I think that has less to do with corporations and more to do with Republican politicians (correctly) concluding that their Republican voters don't want Trump impeached.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:32AM (#32179136)
That is also a form of corruption though. Voter sentiment shouldn't be prioritised over protecting democracy and the constitution.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by mythrwy on Thursday July 21, 2022 @01:00PM (#32181832)
I'm always confused when I see people say (to paraphrase) "We need to protect democracy so the hell with what the voters think!".

How exactly does that logic work?

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by cnelsenmilt on Thursday July 21, 2022 @01:59PM (#32182619)
In the same way when you sit down to play a boardgame with someone and they draw extra cards, fudge die rolls, and flip over the table when a turn goes against them: they're no longer playing the agreed-on game at that point, and you and the other players don't have to accept their behavior as part of the play.

There is a baseline set of rules (in the USA we have the Constitution) for how the game works. Like a person's freedom to swing their arm, a voter's freedom on what to vote for must stop at the limit of the other voters' rights. The "Tyranny of the Majority" is a related concept as well.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by mythrwy on Thursday July 21, 2022 @02:38PM (#32183097)
Well, yes that is why the US is a constitutional republic.

It's just that phrasing seems hilariously and ironically out of wack.

It's as if some people think they know better then unwashed masses so they should be in charge regardless of sentiment. Ok, fine, maybe they do, but that isn't called "democracy".

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday July 21, 2022 @02:16PM (#32182784)
It's called representative democracy. The job of representatives is to know what they're doing on the behalf of voters, not to cater to their every whim.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by jmyeet on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:50AM (#32178690)
There are several reasons.

1. Many parts of Europe still have a strong labor movement. This is the only effective counterbalance to corporate power in politics. The US has what may be the lowest rate of union coverage in the OECD (~10%) and most of that is police and teacher unions;

2. Europe by and large is not hypercapitalist like the US is. The normal is social democracy, which is still fundamentally capitalist but way less extreme;

3. Religion. Different European countries have more or less mostly Christian influence but that influence is way less militant. White evangelicalism and its effect ofn politics is more akin to wahhabism in Saudi Arabia. It's also hyper-capitalist;

4. The election process itself in European countries isn't generally political. US states often have the Secretary of State in charge of elections and that's a political office. Redistricting is inherently political. Other countries don't do this. Electoral boundaries are more often drawn by an independent organization;

5. Europe doesn't suffer from the "money = speech" falsehood; and

6. Europe still has the recent memory of two World Wars and the HOlocaust that favors cooperation over division.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by vannevar on Thursday July 21, 2022 @09:52AM (#32179395)
#5 here should be #1, by a mile. Here in Texas, Google is carpet-bombing local TV with ads blasting the bipartisan AIAOC as an attack on American technology by "tha lib'rals," cynically exploiting the political division to scare off Republican votes. They're laundering their money through the Koch brothers' Taxpayer's Protection Alliance. The ads might be a little less effective if they ended with a big "paid for by Google" banner and voice-over.
Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by kmeisthax on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:40AM (#32179967)
For #1 an additional stumbling block for the labor movement is that it's rather difficult to create a limited-liability labor cooperative in the US. For-profit LLCs have legal advantages over other non-profit corporate forms. I suspect if someone tried to make something equivalent to Mondragon in the US, they'd have problems just maintaining the corporate veil and their workers would get crushed under the maddening hellscape that is consumer product liability.

#3 doesn't pass the sniff test to me: Europe has it's Christian Wahhabists, too. Hungary and Poland broke the backs of their democracies even faster than the US is, in the name of banning gay people, and they've cooperated to break the EU sanctions mechanism that was supposed to keep them from doing this.

Also #5 is wrong - or, at least, not properly root-caused. "Money-equals-speech" is itself a result of free-speech extremism. If we say the government can't regulate speech, then a way around that is to regulate money spent to speak. Let's say Ron DeSantis wants to ban gay advocacy - but the 1st Amendment says "hell no". Instead he gets a bill passed that bans spending money to purchase pride flags, buying paper to print books with gay characters in them, buying billboards with pro-LGBT messaging, or TV ad spots with the same. It's very difficult to not read this as a speech-restricting bill.

The argument in Citizens' United - the money-equals-speech case - was that even a content-neutral funding cap was an infringement of free speech. The government can't mandate that all politicians whisper, after all. Except now we have a fundraising war because every politician needs to shout as loudly as possible. And to do that you need lots of money. The US Supreme Court didn't invent "money-equals-speech", it's just a fact of how political speech works.

Europe does not have this problem because Europe is willing to entertain restrictions on political speech that the US considers unconscionable. Several EU member states have constitutional bans on fascism and hate speech[0], for example. You could never get away with that in the US for any reason. Freedom of speech is not entirely unprotected in the EU, of course - the protections are just more reasoned and considered than the blunt instrument of "Congress shall make no law".

I'm not sure about #6 either. Did America not get involved in WWII? I mean, we did try to cover up the Holocaust[1] early on and we got involved later than Europe, but it's just as culturally engrained here as it presumably is over there.

[0] Which, BTW, should be considered as censorious in and of themselves. Any political ideology which calls for the killing of specific groups of people is engaging in censorship.

[1] Specifically: FDR knew about it early on; and the New York Times buried it many pages deep because they were shy about being a "Jewish newspaper".

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by truckerbill on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:34AM (#32178549)
Less lobbying focus (though probably still a lot)?

Protectionism (big tech is USA born)?

Elites are old money not new?

No tax income (probably this)?

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by fallingknife on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:49AM (#32178675)
> Elites are old money not new

This is the big one right here. Europe has pretty much missed the boat on tech so its elites are from older industries that tech is starting to compete with. You can see this same dynamic here in the US as the legacy media has declared war on the tech industry for threatening its power.

Re:Congress' push to regulate Big Tech is fizzling out by refurb on Thursday July 21, 2022 @08:37AM (#32178575)
Because it’s politically expedient for them?

Notice how China has no trouble regulating US tech either?