Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by Timpy on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:48PM
(#32155370)
I know these heat waves are affecting Europe compared to the US because they don't have AC to deal with it. I don't understand why this isn't an issue for parts of the world where they also don't have AC but reach these temperatures all the time? I'm not criticizing the people affected, I'm genuinely curious what's different in Europe compared to equatorial populations without AC? Or do people die from heat all the time in less wealthy countries and we just don't hear about it? I'm really sorry to see a headline like this, I'm not skeptical or critical, I just want to understand the world better.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by m348e912 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @04:29PM
(#32157524)
I agree the poster was being imprecise, but it's not unreasonable to agree that Northern Europe has a lot less residential and commercial air conditioning than most of the southern US.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by turtlebits on Monday July 18, 2022 @10:04PM
(#32146682)
Are portable A/C units not available or too expensive? (Or was there a mad rush after seeing the forecast)
After seeing wildfires, heat domes around the world in the past few years, my family definitely prepared. (I put in a small mini split after last years heat dome in the NW US.)
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by efficax on Monday July 18, 2022 @11:10PM
(#32147101)
they are available but just not really something most europeans have had to use in the past. outside of offices and hotels, only the rich tend to use air conditioners and if you are poor, it’s unlikely that you can get one at a moments notice because you saw a 40 degree forecast (if you even watch the forecasts)
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by birksherty on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:02AM
(#32150326)
What about ceiling fans? Do you have them? Or is it never that needed before too? In India where high temperature and humidity is always there, most people uses fans, AC only by rich and upper middle class.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by PraetorianGourd on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:40AM
(#32147934)
I think any European below the 47th parallel North should have at least considered some form of AC.
At some point there is an odd disconnect between accepting living spaces need to be heated in Winter but rejecting they should be cooled in the Summer.
Amd I get it. It sucks that Europe needs AC in the Summer now, but unfortunately no amount of “I told you so” blog posts will keep anyone from heat sickness. So lets accept the world as it is now, mitigate against the risks and try not to make things worse.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by PraetorianGourd on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @02:22AM
(#32162156)
Have you tried to nap when the temperature outside is 41c and you have no air conditioning? I have. It is not possible.
Where I live, we hit 46c last year. I brought a portable AC to my mom, it was 32c in her 2nd story bedroom after sunset. Yeah of course those temps are not unheard of in some regions. But I am north of the 45th parallel. It isn’t normal and a “siesta” won’t make it so.
We fucked up, the planet is getting hotter. We need to adapt. Where I live, electricity is mainly generated through hydroelectric dams. Yeah, it fucks up the fish, but it is better than coal or methane. And yes, I will unabashedly run my AC to make my home habitable. It isn’t accepting defeat, it is allowing us to live.
I wonder, as you wrote this reply, what was the temperature inside your home? I am sure you will tell us with the same zeal that was behind your original reply. If not, kindly keep your “customs” to yourself while people die of heat sickness in their homes.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by spaniard89277 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @05:57PM
(#32172973)
Dude, you simply can't pay the electricity bills for AC. I mean, you can if you have good income, but prices are much higher than the US and salaries are much lower.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by oliwarner on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:32AM
(#32151158)
Yes! Let's magic 30 million new AC units into existence and pump another 105GW of power onto the grid!
Doing this stuff at population scale is nearly impossible. It would also cause secondary heat issues and make heatwaves much worse for the local environment. It's a bad idea.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by tiagod on Monday July 18, 2022 @08:21PM
(#32145884)
Almost nobody in portugal has AC. We just close all the windows and blinds down and stay inside during the hours of most heat, and wait until it gets cooler.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by tiagod on Monday July 18, 2022 @09:16PM
(#32146276)
I can't imagine life in the summer without them, and I live in Lisbon. We hit 41.5 last week, some places in the country got to 47. That's going to kill a lot of people, with or without blinds and closed windows.
Re:Heat wave kills more than 1,100 people in Spain and Portugal
by sammalloy on Monday July 18, 2022 @08:38PM
(#32145996)
> What surprised me was how few households have air conditioning in Europe.
It’s been reported on for years, and it’s not just Europe. In Hawaii, for example, most places didn’t have AC, and didn’t really need it until the 2010s, when the weather noticeably changed. Now, there’s entire sides of the islands, particularly leeward, where AC companies are working 24/7 on installation projects in buildings that haven’t had AC for the previous 20-30 years. Same is true for California, where people are putting AC in for the first time in homes that were built in the 1960s and didn’t need it before.
What makes you think Europe does not have AC?
After seeing wildfires, heat domes around the world in the past few years, my family definitely prepared. (I put in a small mini split after last years heat dome in the NW US.)
Too expensive. The price of electricity is much higher here (https://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-price...).
At some point there is an odd disconnect between accepting living spaces need to be heated in Winter but rejecting they should be cooled in the Summer.
Amd I get it. It sucks that Europe needs AC in the Summer now, but unfortunately no amount of “I told you so” blog posts will keep anyone from heat sickness. So lets accept the world as it is now, mitigate against the risks and try not to make things worse.
I believe changing the way of life and enabling old customs like siesta would be a much more climate friendly short term solution.
Where I live, we hit 46c last year. I brought a portable AC to my mom, it was 32c in her 2nd story bedroom after sunset. Yeah of course those temps are not unheard of in some regions. But I am north of the 45th parallel. It isn’t normal and a “siesta” won’t make it so.
We fucked up, the planet is getting hotter. We need to adapt. Where I live, electricity is mainly generated through hydroelectric dams. Yeah, it fucks up the fish, but it is better than coal or methane. And yes, I will unabashedly run my AC to make my home habitable. It isn’t accepting defeat, it is allowing us to live.
I wonder, as you wrote this reply, what was the temperature inside your home? I am sure you will tell us with the same zeal that was behind your original reply. If not, kindly keep your “customs” to yourself while people die of heat sickness in their homes.
Sure, you might be able to purchase the system and get it installed, but energy costs are astronomical.
Doing this stuff at population scale is nearly impossible. It would also cause secondary heat issues and make heatwaves much worse for the local environment. It's a bad idea.
Those alarmist articles without sources and detailed information are pointless.
It’s been reported on for years, and it’s not just Europe. In Hawaii, for example, most places didn’t have AC, and didn’t really need it until the 2010s, when the weather noticeably changed. Now, there’s entire sides of the islands, particularly leeward, where AC companies are working 24/7 on installation projects in buildings that haven’t had AC for the previous 20-30 years. Same is true for California, where people are putting AC in for the first time in homes that were built in the 1960s and didn’t need it before.
Last I checked Hawaii's energy needs were all met via imported fossil fuels. It's why the CoL is so high there. But that was well over a decade ago.