And it's not all about the fat. People have become horribly weak because of their sedentary lifestyle. Sit at a desk for 8h, sleep 8h, sit on the couch for 2h for entertainment, sit while eating for 1h.
And it's perfectly understandable that people want to take care of their body more than they care about other things. It's the only thing that is truly theirs and no amount of money can fix it if you don't take care of it.
In my case, I was well past the "obese" point on the BMI scale, but not "morbidly obese" yet. I thought I was overweight, but not badly so.
Then I stopped and took a good look at my BMI and where it should be, and decided to diet. I lost some weight myself, and then went to a doctor who prescribed a drug to help me. I ended up losing almost 70 lbs. I've gained about 20 of that back now, but I've been holding (or slowly slipping) for quite a few years now, and still want to lose again.
I look at old pictures of myself and I'm horrified at how fat I was. But at the time, I didn't see a problem.
I don't diet anymore, I've started intuitive eating and my diet has improved over all. I eat variety now, more vegetables and lots of protein. I also have carbs, and dessert with I want it. I've also started doing things for the experience rather than to make my body look a certain and ultimately unattainable way. I don't focus on how I look anymore, I focus on being strong. I am now highly active and doing activities I never thought I would be capable of in my fat body. I take dance classes four times a week, I lift weights, and I am starting Lyra and aerial classes. I also don't step on scales anymore. But I can tell you I haven't magically shrunk. I guess what I'm trying to say is... Any standard of "in shape" can be impossible for any person. We aren't all meant to look that same and I think that people are caring less about being overweight because it should never have been a limiting factor to you enjoying your life, being active, and being well loved by the right people.
You were on a very good path when doing keto, but why did you starve yourself?
There are two kinds of diets that lead to healthy weight loss: 1) low-fat high-carb 2) high-fat low-carb
Pick one and stick with it.
But god help you if you will mix large amounts of carbs and fats.
Your only mistake is that you starved yourself on keto, people have extreme success on keto/carnivore. No need to starve yourself.
You are responding to a description of pain and suffering through all kinds of diets....with a push to do more diet.
And that, without any better argumentation than "There are two kinds of diets that lead to healthy weight loss". At this point it's just plain evil.
Obesity leads to an early death.
"Evil"? Trying to show a person that his mistake was starving himself when he thinks that keto was the problem is evil? Since when is pointing out mistakes that a person can use to correct himself evil?
You truly have a warped worldview.
If someone is fat his diet must be changed. There is no other way. If you belive that diet==starvation than you understand nothing about dieting.
For example, people on a good keto diet do not even remotely starve, are fully satiated (after the first 14 days that the body requires so adjust to this diet, which is an annoying period) and lose a lot of weight.
So does a lot of things, including eating disorders and living a miserable life in the first place.
From the parent's post, it's clear that dieting has done significant damage, and they got better when they stopped caring about that "Obesity leads to an early death." mantra:
> I still have palpitations sometimes, and I will never know what damage yoyo dieting for years did to me. [...] I don't focus on how I look anymore, I focus on being strong.
On your general stance on the subject:
> If someone is fat his diet must be changed. There is no other way.
This is a text book example of dogma. and if you really meant it, I guess there will be no amount of discussion that actually leads to anything productive on either yours or my side...
Obesity is the easiest preventable thing under your control that you can directly influence to assure that an early death does not come, you are coping and desperately trying to twist what I said.
>From the parent's post, it's clear that dieting has done significant damage
His incorrect dieting did the damage. You can drive a car well or you can drive it without a drivers license and crash in the first wall and kill yourself. You are again conflating legit dieting with incorrect dieting.
>This is a text book example of dogma. and if you really meant it, I guess there will be no amount of discussion that actually leads to anything productive on either yours or my side...
I cannot write here what I truly wish to say in regards to this comment as it would get me banned.
There is no other way to reduce fatness other than with a diet change. You do realize that what you wrote makes no sense? How do you expect someone to lose weight without changing his diet? Unless you have a device at home capable or breaking the laws of physics, which I doubt. Exercise is hardly of any help for fat loss.
The alternative are surgeries: but think about it: would you rather correctly adjust the food you eat or would you rather have a piece of you cut out and risking god knows what side effects of mutilating your body for having delusions of how mother nature designed the human body?
Obesity is not a disease, it's a condition. The distinction is important. Some disease can be caused by excessive obesity, but being obese doesn't force getting these diseases.
Here we don't know anything about someone on the internet, and there's no way for us to claim that they will have any critical disease due to their potential obesity. They might be perfectly fine for the rest of their life as they are now. Some studies actually find a longer lifespan for people lightly in the "overweight" zone.
Basically, reducing weight might not benefit everyone "overweight" person.
On the "easiest" part...living a less stressful life is also easy, and can be done by not stressing on diets...
> There is no other way to reduce fatness other than with a diet change.
My complaint is not as much on the "how" than on the "why". From the info we got, there just is no reason to reduce fatness in the first place. And then, if there were actual reasons, the solutions should be adjusted to those reasons. If it's heart diseases, there are more efficient means to prevent them (e.g. increasing exercice, or changing life habits like sleep patterns or reducing salt/adjusting water intake, etc.).
If we really care about health, there is no universal advice.
Obese people are the only group of people that routinely die young.
Do you know this from experience or are you just assuming that because controlling your weight is easy it must be for everyone?
Simple->complex is orthogonal to easy->difficult.
To each their own, there's a lot of ways to look at any single situation.
Is that actually true though? Take a look at the photographic evidence of hunter-gatherers. They all largely look the same physique wise.
I think there is a good argument, at least from an historical/anthropological perspective, that that is how we are all meant to look.
I think this would need more development. What do you mean by "hunter-gatherers", and what photographic evidence we have.
For instance there's African societies which would fit the "hunter-gatherer" label (for instance the Akan in Ghana) and they're not all looking the same.
Have you ever sought therapy?
Why didn't you continue keto without starving yourself?
It's just steroids & PEDs all around wherever you look.
Getting to low BF% is all very doable though, just keep your carb intake to bare minimum.
But getting the shredded/body builder look people asociate with weightlifting?
Most of the time that shit is just pure steroids and unachievable naturally outside of some very rare 0.01% specimen.
And thus the missing component ultimately is roids really.
Because if you don't use roids, by far most people can't get roided tiktoker/marvel super hero look. Hard work or not.
The fact is, that most actors in those movies get there very quickly, relatively speaking and they do use roids. With some very, very rare exceptions.
The hard work isn't the missing component, the roids is the missing key component.
I know it affects me. Looking at media 20-30 years ago I don't this was as prevalent.
It's all steroids. Hours of training and some super rigorous diet plan is all a ruse. It's steroids.
People have recovery time, hours of intense training a day is physically not possible, atleast not in the way which would build muscle for the type of shitless shots.
Mentioning hard work is completely unnecessary, it is a given.
Following the programme and rep-ing till failure isn't necessarily particularly "hard work" especially if you're roided up.
The difference between using and not using roids & PEDs is so massive, that all this mentioning of "hard work" is extremely disingenuous.
I was 6'4", 240lbs, with a body-fat percentage under 15%. Athletes routinely exceed that level of fitness, few others do. In the 90s I would have been the cut of an NFL tight-end.
But in my vicinity were guys who were fucking shredded. Younger and older. Those guys were taking something. Anabolic steroids? Not sure, but fucking likely.
Now I've got 10-15% less muscle mass but am up to 260lbs. So my body fat percentage has slowely but surely crept above 20%. And the guys at the gym are even scarier than 3 years ago. Blowing joints on absurd weight and being back at it 1-2 weeks later.
Is this because of the Internet? Maybe. But you don't need the Internet to have it all around you.
I wonder if we could just induce a little healthy endorphin addiction is less fit people to prime them? Haha
I've been thinking for a while that male people mostly did not receive attention at all from the whole body-positivity movement. Which is very relevant, because a lot of people strive for a physical condition which might simply be unachievable, or they try to reach such body shape in unhealthy ways (i've so many friends start using wey powder as a significant part of their nutrition without consulting their doctor and/or a nutritionist).
In general I think male people would generally benefit from some body positivity...
The standard of being “in shape” has gotten so absurd, and the nonlinear payoff around fitness so steep at the “maybe doing some pretty extreme shit” cutoff that I’m personally surprised I have t just given up, and it seems a lot of people have.
I don’t know if it’s TikTok, or Marvel movies, or whatever: but “fucking mutant superhero” used to one among many attractive archetypes.