As for any potential "skill gap", I'm just as socially awkward as I was at 21, but my wife doesn't mind. I think conscientious people can usually recognize attempts at conscientiousness.
FWIW, most of conscientiousness is the intent anyway
So, you need to be yourself... but you actually don't.
It gets worse. This is just copium we give to men to make them think it gets better. The stats show that it doesn’t get better. If you’re single now and have never been on a date - the only thing that increases is your time on the market. Your value though - it will continue to plummet unless you do something about it.
Often the stories about men who didn’t do well in their early 20s but managed well later are due to weight loss, fashion sense, not being poor, etc. If you didn’t catch on already - none of these are unsolvable at 22. You can fix them at 22 and be much better off than a 28 year old.
The quality of people you’ll be able to date will also vary even more wildly. You’re going to get far more jaded people who used their 20s to burn every emotionally healthy neuron they had in their brain, people who are desperate to settle down but are bad at making long term choices with it (thus high risk of divorce), and many single parents. (40% of children are born out of wedlock today)
It does not get better as you age. This is a myth. If you’re a shit candidate at 22 - you will be a shit candidate at 28 unless something markedly changes about yourself. (Which - again - can happen at 22 - there’s no reason to wait)
If the only change that occurs to a person until the more advanced age, is only physical decline, then they're certainly "less valuable" than their younger counterpart.
However, there are people (I hope most) that actually do have many other (inner) qualities that grow with them, and compensante and exceed the physical decline, thus, their "value" is higher than their younger counterpart.
This is why if you're not getting dates now - you will not get them later unless you change something about your most superficial appearance.
Were we talking about online dating? Afaics it hasn't been mentioned anywhere in the chain you're replying to.
Tell me - what does it look like here as to how people are going to get into relationships? Do you think bars and especially clubs are going to be great places to really get to know someone and let their personality shine for greater than 5 minutes?
I'm not gonna bother getting newer stats but they show the trend getting even more pushed towards online dating. You're not escaping it.
That's a pretty darn big reason when women select for financial stability rather aggressively and with the "do your dues" mentality the job market has combined with prolonged studying. By far most people would not point out "just age" as the cause, but the things which come with age to most men naturally.
Besides - when it comes to online dating and getting first dates - not looking poor just means don't appear homeless.
If you're going to argue being financially stable is in fact a pretty big deal, aging and gaining experience to remain financially stable is a pretty obvious perk that comes with age. Especially outside SV and the US. If only as simple as to afford going to places with more prospects and bringing someone home to your place without hassle or worries. It doesn't need "rich" money but it sure as hell needs "money" spent in an effective manner.
For many men, it works the other way. You become smarter. More confident. More emotionally, psychologically, and financially stable. All those make you more attractive. Your prospective partners are the same. Everybody has more experience, and doesn't freak out and act self-destructively like they did when they were 23. People are more aware of what a relationship entails.
Simply, relationships are just more pleasing.
At least for some subset of those growing older.
> You become smarter. More confident. More emotionally, psychologically, and financially stable.
Cause all those are relevant for online dating and getting first dates.
All of this is also true for women.
How often do you see women in their 30's dating 22 year old men? If youth is what they are after I feel like you would see that a lot more often.
I actually don't. I keep seeing these meme constantly repeated and I actually made a list of unattractive males... and they, mostly, have never had luck with relationship. Physical attractiveness is very important, whatever the consensus du jour say about it.
It's amazing how your mindset can make the world look completely different. That mindset also makes you completely unattractive to women. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The information is out there to help, if you want it. The short version is to socialise more and think less.
At no point have I heard multiple women say they are falling head over heels for a man due to his personality alone. Almost always - the man is physically attractive to them as well.
Which can also be another can of worms.
I'm single, in my mid-late 30s, and a lot of the women I encounter of compatible age seem to want kids yesterday, and that kind of rush doesn't work well for establishing a healthy relationship.
Procrastinators aren't really a thing - IMO. I think people who have too high of standards are the main issue. They try to get someone who isn't going to ever settle down with them and constantly chase that. By the time they realize they cannot get that person and will constantly get non-committal relationships with them - they are past their prime and will slowly settle (or just get a dog and be alone while having sex with random people to boost self-esteem here and there).
So, character traits I'd say that lead to being single at that age as a lady are ones where someone has an inflated ego, doesn't work on themselves, and/or is generally expecting more than what they offer. That's what I've noticed a lot. (I know a lot of women - most of my friends are women)
PSA: To anyone struggling with this please try and ignore any advice online that focuses on the opposite sex and their inherent value (or lack thereof). Actually talking to the opposite sex even in a casual way is a really good way to get over this type of thinking.
The point shouldn't be to get over this type of thinking per se, but rather to determine which type of thinking is most consistent with reality and subsequently dispense with the rest as chaff and empty platitudes. If "man-o-sphere logic" is ineffective or counterproductive, then the only way to find out is to scrutinize it or apply it and observe the outcome.
Women want the genuine article with qualities of X, Y, Z.
They do not want a guy who doesn't have those qualities innately. Naturally, upon receiving the information that these qualities are sought after, guys will try to best of their ability to fake them. The fact that a guy has to be told what to do in the first place is very unappealing in itself.
Shortly -it is against their best interests to be open and honest about what they desire.
Because 1) you will get a lot of fakes and 2) it can be dangerous as it can upset some undesirable guys
Consequently the way to understand woman - if we are following along with this logic - is by observing how they act and react and not by listening and believing to what say necessarily.
Or to rephrase - they want you to be a MAN and act like a MAN, and not to be told to be a man and act like a man.
If you have to be told to be more like a man, you're not it obviously.
On top of it, these desires contain certain "manly physical and appearance" qualities that can't really be faked either way.
Unfortunately, this kind of logic and thinking has already entered mainstream internet consciousness via memes and such, and the only way to address it is to face it head on.
And if you can't then what does it mean?
I don't think we're talking about the same concept though. You're touching on preferences and in general attraction which is just a normal part of being and doesn't represent some kind of value system where you have high-value and low-value people.
Talking to the sex you're attracted to will result, at best, in what people of that sex think they want, not what they actually want and do to get it, at worst, in some unempathetic platitude or even outright insults.
Yes, it's not what I typed but this is what I meant. I think from there it's just the normal process of getting to know people. Much better than seeing it as a transaction and a push/pull of low-value and high-value system.
Most people I know dating aren't trying to optimize for the number of dates they go one with different people but ideally trying to find that one person they can be with for awhile. So the common definition of "getting better at dates" implies you eventually date less.
I have a few friends in their mid-30s that have become quite the experts at getting dates, but all of them seem fairly unhappy that they are still working on dating rather than in a steady relationship and focusing on other things.
I use dating apps or met a couple of them at the bouldering gym where I boulder.
That's why I stopped going to the local boulder gyms. Too many cookie-cutter "non-conformist dudes" who see the gym as their personal hunting grounds, creeping on the girls like a sleazy tennis instructor and bullying beginner guys because they don't like the competition.
The only advice I would give to you is don't satisfy your urges with porn in the meantime. Stay far, far away.
Point being: It's not a foregone conclusion that your future wife is having sex right now. There are still people out there who wait.
Listen, I know you’re probably having difficulty finding a romantic relationship and I know how demoralizing and depressing that can be. I’ve been there - my teens and twenties were just awful for my self-esteem. But it can, and usually does, get better, as your hormones settle down and you learn to make friends with prospective romantic partners and can take the time to form a strong bond. The world is a big place and I believe there is someone for everyone, although that “someone” can be difficult to find.
If I were to give you one piece of advice, it would be for you to figure out what the best part of you is, and to feel great about that. Having a sense of confidence in something you are or do is infectious and is very attractive to people, and can lead to great success down the line.
And last, but not least, don’t settle! Just because someone is attracted to you doesn’t mean they’re right for you. I’ve made that mistake with disastrous consequences. As a late bloomer I only really came to terms with that in my early 40s.
Good luck!
https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-li...
https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marita...
>And last, but not least, don’t settle!
This is horrible advice. You have minimal requirements and fill in the remainder by being human and growing together. "Don't settle" is exactly how people continue to monkey branch to new partners ever higher.
Second, it is never horrible advice to suggest to someone that they try to minimize their unhappiness. Jealousy, neglect, and unkindness are all toxic to a relationship; and sometimes you just aren't attracted to certain people at a basic level for whatever reason. By "don't settle," I'm not suggesting that one hold out for a pinnacle of perfection (e.g. a supermodel), but rather, a partner that makes you feel good, loved, validated, and respected - and whom you feel the same about in return.
>"I find that premarital sex or premarital cohabitation that is limited to a woman's husband is not associated with an elevated risk of marital disruption. However, women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship have an increased risk of marital dissolution."
https://doi.org/10.1177/0146167204271303
>"A truism in psychology is that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This is no less true in the realm of sexual behavior. Indeed, one of the strongest predictors of marital infidelity is one’s number of prior sex partners (Buss, 2000). Deception about past sexual promiscuity would have inflicted greater costs, on average, on men than on women"
There's plenty more. We can keep this up all day. There's very little to support your idea of partner count or marriage count having little influence, and quite a lot to support the opposite.
>It is never horrible advice to suggest to someone that they try to minimize their unhappiness
The problem with your "advice" is that it sets up exactly that perfection part, even if your intentions are different. It also discredits the idea of growing together, when in reality most people do just fine with any partner which meets some set of minimal values, followed by growing together and overcoming obstacles. "Minimal" does not include any of the things you mention, rather it comes to realistic terms that shooting for the stars is a bad idea and growing together is far more important than being an instant husband/wife.
Relationships require work and investment. "Never settle" has translated into "there is always better" for many. It's the same thing that happens when children become adults. They grow less tolerant of things, and with that comes less willingness to see past their initial judgment.
I can't help but wonder how many of these couples -- who decided to marry without having mutual care, validation, respect, and attraction to one another beforehand -- are actually happy (let alone content) and not cheating on or otherwise abusing one another.
There is lots of evidence that having too many partners damage the ability to form deep love relationship. For men and for women.
I think you're unknowingly proving his point.
The fact of the matter is, a previous relationship failing doesn't have to mean anything. You can grow as a person, fix previous faults, learn how to interact with people who you don't 100% mesh with. As most things in life, it matters the effort you put into it, and then you can always get very lucky.
Which is not to say that you can't end up with a poor fit anyway. You're just compelled by social expectations (if not legal requirements) to stay together despite the poor fit, often to the detriment of everyone involved.
Sometimes people do give up too easily, and could make the marriage work if they just had a bit more incentive to try. That's where systems which grant marriage more permanence shine. But on other occasions the problems run deeper, and separation may well be the correct answer.
In any case, since people have learned that they can get most of what they want out of a relationship without actually getting married, stronger / less reversible marriages just tend to discourage people from getting married in the first place.
Anyway, your first line is just sad. Yeah, they are having sex with other men, but is your ego so fragile that the idea of a woman having one or more comparison points scares you?
A lot of my best friends are women. Recently I went through a major accomplishment. I had five women friends text me to congratulate me.
I feel that I dress well, and I am a physically fit marathon-running, motorcycle-riding, outdoorsman. Social awkwardness yes but I think it comes across as being sincere.
This is my unhealthy mindset talking (perhaps) but it isn't necessarily low ego, it's just life, pop culture, etc does not align with the values I was taught as a child, growing up in a conservative religious home.
Anyway, I am sorry to hear about your struggle, and is something I am having troubles relating to since I grew up in a colture/family that is very open about sex.
I know several people who stayed single late in their lives, and they are happy and have many friends. I know some others who married late in life, and they are also happy.