They're using a fairly narrow definition of ads though. Vizio is full of recommendations for a mediocre streaming service owned by Vizio.

Vizio has also apparently decided to ramp up it's ad growth [0] and Jump Ad [1] platform as well. It makes me real glad that I didn't drop the money on a P Series Quantum due to technical issues people experienced. I've stopped considering them completely since.

It's important to remember these reviews can become outdated with firmware, too. Even old TVs can suddenly start "benefiting viewers, content providers and advertisers" with "features" like ads playing as screensavers, and phoning the content of your screen back to Big Brother.

Here's a related Reddit thread from the Jump Ad announcement [2].

[0] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-...

[1] - https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...

[2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_a...

Another option if you have good control over your router is to put the TV and other smart devices on a special subnet or vlan and only occasionally give it internet access for updates, etc. Maybe there's a good DNS-based ad blocker you could run on its vlan and nuke all of its ad and spy traffic too.

This actually seems like a good market opportunity for yet another home device, a router with aggressive spyware and ad mitigation that's made to explicitly connect all your smart gadgets and untrusted devices that phone home.

These products are designed not to rely upon DNS to serve the ad content, though.

If true, this is an excellent chance for white hat flooding.

Knock, and keep that ip offline. With no way to change locationation(DNS), their little ad sceme won't work.

Even better if it makes companies shy about using such methods.

Well, no - GP an isn’t exactly correct. They use DNS, they just won’t use your configured DNS. You can play NAT tricks to force all UDP dns queries to your pihole or other DNS based blocker, but they can just as easily use DOH.

That's grey hat. Arguably ethical... Ish... But entirely illegal and done without consent.

> white hat flooding

Very curious definition of “white hat” you have

This would be what I term “green hat”, gray with a flavor of robbing the rich to feed the poor.

A white hat works for the public good, yes?

Close, but no.

>A white hat (or a white hat hacker) is an ethical security hacker.[1] Ethical hacking is a term meant to imply a broader category than just penetration testing.[2][3] Under the owner's consent, white hat hackers aim to identify any vulnerabilities the current system has. [...] There is a third kind of hacker known as a grey hat who hacks with good intentions but at times without permission.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_(computer_security)

traditionally, white hat means working with companies to help identify weaknesses in their systems, and getting inside with their consent.

That sounds like helping to secure my home network from unwanted spyware and tracking to me.

Sure, but is vigilantism for the public good?

I block the ads on my Roku TV through DNS filtering.

I use a Pi-hole for the network, but this doesn't block YouTube ads (sadly). Since I refuse to see ads of any stripe ever, I discovered that my Amazon Firestick can be put in developer mode and then install SmartTubeNext. Looks very similar to YouTube, but blocks all ads, sponsor content, and other nonsense. Pure videos.

I of course also use UBlock Origin, Privacy Badger, Decentraleyes, and Referer Block on the laptop in addition to the Pi-hole. I do the same at work, as they allowed me to use a Pi-hole since I'm IT and on my own portion of the network on a private VLAN.

Since some people use laptops in lieu of TVs, you can always use FreeTube, which blocks ads by default and can also be proxied in the settings so YouTube cannot see your location. https://freetubeapp.io/

How to block ads on Amazon Firestick https://troypoint.com/youtube-without-ads/

SmartTubeNext https://smartyoutubetv.github.io/

I just pay for YouTube Premium and don't see YouTube ads on any platform while still providing some income for the content creators I watch.

Same

Does anything keep them from adding ads to your already purchased television at an arbitrary time in the future?

Nothing except the dangers of terrible PR, I suppose.

Didn't stop Google from turning the top third of all Android-based TVs' UI into ads a while back.

People weren't pleased that their $4000 Sony TVs were turned into a spam conduit, but Google was quite pleased to say FU.

I just saw a TV labeled, "Android TV", and was curious. Wow. I won't be going forward and will probably just pay up for a commercial grade type set, or some combination of monitor / tuner.

So far, I've been lucky. After finally moving off of a CRT for primary TV viewing, I picked up a smart plasma from Samsung. Never put it online, and that TV is awesome! Gonna miss it one day. Looks like OLED is going to deliver nicely, and that's what I'm looking at in the future.

Did pick up two "Hi Sense" ROKU sets, and they are remarkably clean. Apparently, there are sets out there sans the AD spamming, and or I bought in just prior to this all very seriously escalating.

Roku gets you with ad targeting for ad supported programming. So, things with commercial breaks play ads based on what you watched on other channels. It's remarkably good at joining web browsing sessions from cookie-free web browsing sessions to my roku. I'm not sure what mechanism they use to join the accounts to web browsing sessions.

They don't get much from me. I watch very little, and less with commercials.

But yes, I get your point.

It's not the same at all, smart tvs can still send tracking data home about what you're viewing etc. I would not want either.

Ditto. And what's to stop someone from making a relay/chip/switch to turn the speakers into microphones when the TV is off-not-off, save Big Co LLC the microphone costs and get a big fat promotion? If it's possible, someone will do it. Remember when Goog "forgot" to mention the Nest microphone?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/googles-nest-alarm-system-has-a...

EDIT: Even better, Visio's lapse. This shit used to be illegal, and now it's supposed to be not super creepy, too? No thanks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/vizio-television...

Also, Samsung devices have started establishing mesh networks with each other.

If I have to narrow down a specific definition of "smart feature" I would say voice input of any sort. So my take on OP's question is: can I buy a TV that has no built in microphones? Maybe OP meant something different but that is what I would want. Simplest though is to just not have a TV at all. If there is something important, it will be online.

Yes that would be a close enough definition of what I meant. But I am also not sure if some TVs come with built in cameras. I don’t want those either. I am not happy with, but willing to tolerate, the “what I am watching” tracking that comes with say Apple TV. The 42” LG monitor with remote and speakers suggested elsewhere sounds interesting. Thanks all for the suggestions plus related discussions. The unrelated discussions are also very welcome. They are what give HN its “unique” flavor.

I ended up buying a cheap TCL brand TV a while ago. It still had all the smart features (which I didnt want) but at least it did have a physical switch to disable the microphone.

If the TV has no Internet connection, the mic is useless. I use an Amazon Firestick in developer mode connected to a network that uses a P-hole and other mitigation efforts to keep all the nasty tracking, beacons, etc. minimized. Nothing is 100%, but we can come close. What I'd like to see is a browser that doesn't allow scanning of fonts, etc. There has to be a way to perhaps fake what they can see and poison their data collection.

Better check for more microphones. They are like potato chips. Bet they can't install just one ;).

or update via usb