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Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by insickness on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @07:20AM (#31408793)
The best solution to getting past the anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle is to take small, manageable actions while accepting the feelings that go along with those actions.

Start with the smallest steps possible. Maybe that means opening the assignment and saving it to your computer. Then put it down and walk away. Come back in a little while and take another small step, such as reading over the assignment or making an outline of what you need to do to get it done. Often once you've done something you will often start to feel a lot different than if you've done nothing.

Keep track of how you're feeling. It's okay to feel more anxiety at first because you're doing something instead of nothing. Those feelings tend to subside over time as you take action, but the point is not to reduce your anxiety, the point is that you are making a commitment to do something in your life, to live your life, rather than to remain paralyzed in fear. Your goal is not to get rid of the anxiety but to live the kind of life you want to live.

This is the model for Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. A great book on this is "Get Out of Your Mind and into Your Life."

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by albrewer on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:39PM (#31413985)
This is what I try and do with my kids. They're elementary school age - if you tell them "go clean your room", they will melt down because the problem is too big for them to understand how to fix it.

Conceptually, they know they just need to put one thing away at a time, but often their emotions kick in first and short circuits rational thought. I help them through this by sitting in the room with them and just calling out 3 things that can easily be put away and tell them to just do those 3 things. Then we will do it again, and again, and again, and ....., until the room is close to being clean and they can finally take care of themselves.

I also point out the phenomenon to them - I call it their "monkey brain" impulse, which I use to describe any impulsive or avoidant behavior. I also use "lizard brain" when they go into a blind rage against their sibling at some perceived slight or injustice, and %kid_name% brain for when rational thought and morality are piloting their actions. The framework seems to work for them, and helps them think about their thoughts (which is a concept I had to introduce to them, they'd literally never thought about doing that - I guess kids don't develop that until later?).

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by ketzo on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @03:04PM (#31415051)
I mean, there are lots of adults who don’t develop that separation. Most of us fail at it at least sometimes.

Seems like an excellent skill to practice so early. Love that.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by d1rk on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @01:18AM (#31419475)
The best is, the kids learn how to reflect on their own behavior. Giving them the opportunity (at least, later on) if they want to react like this. Or do something else instead.

Good parenting in place.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by JohnBooty on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @12:28PM (#31413022)

    Start with the smallest steps possible. Maybe 
    that means opening the assignment and saving 
    it to your computer.
This is insanely effective for me.

Avoidance/procrastination is still an ongoing struggle for me, and I suspect it always will be.

But breaking things down into steps is my best weapon. Nothing comes close.

(Second place is probably "getting good sleep" which has positive benefits for well, just about any challenge your mind faces)

I actually extend this concept to life in general. I make lists of daily tasks. This even includes "getting out of bed", "taking vitamins", etc. Sometimes it's useful to give yourself "credit" for doing all of the little things. Gets you rolling. Sounds silly but it is often effective for me.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by huge87 on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:59PM (#31414266)
(Second place is probably "getting good sleep" which has positive benefits for well, just about any challenge your mind faces)

I implemented a system of 9+ hours of sleep the night before an exam; this means I'll be in bed an hour and a half (maybe 3 hours) before my usual bed time. This provides a noticeable buff to my speed, accuracy, and recall on test day.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by noufalibrahim on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @08:32AM (#31409553)
A vehement +1 to this post. Reducing the conceptual size of the problem to something that you can just shrug and do will give you a step forward and knock a chunk out of your anxiety. If you keep at it, the anxiety will reduce over time.

One thing that's helped me is self talk. You should assure yourself that you're the man and that these challenges are easy for you to overcome. Don't be afraid to go over the top with this and when you do it, give yourself a pat on the back before you take the next step.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by Handprint4469 on Monday May 30, 2022 @01:34PM (#31561424)
I just created this account to thank you for posting this comment. After reading it I got and read the book you recommended, and it has really helped me with issues I've been struggling with for years.

I had not noticed the pattern of "avoid negative feelings" -> "negative feelings increase over time", and I actually thought problems like my anxiety had gotten better just because I had found more and more elaborate ways to try to avoid feeling it. In fact, it got worse and I became more and more avoidant of things that might trigger it.

Now the anxiety is still there, it still sucks, but I feel it without flinching and carry it with me without getting lost in the stories it tells. And by doing that, I have enough space in my mind to do the things I was avoiding and be more present.

So again, thank you for writing this comment. Know that you have really helped at least one person.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by cassepipe on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @07:41AM (#31408996)
I wish someone had given me this pièce of advice early in life instead of finding that out at 25.

I call it the foot-in-the-door method, it makes wonders.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by ISL on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @08:16AM (#31409375)
By many measures, 25 is early in life. Congratulations: you did!
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by jaqalopes on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @08:27AM (#31409490)
Seriously, even at 30 I feel like I've barely mastered these skills!
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by grvdrm on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @08:51AM (#31409763)
+1 for feeling that way at 40. It never ends!
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by euroderf on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @11:41AM (#31412319)
Well hell, I'm over 60 and I still can't make up my mind what I want to be when I grow up.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by _nhh on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:31PM (#31413868)
I am struggling with this cycle for a long time now. Relieving to hear that everybody just trying to figure things out.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by Taylor_OD on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @10:58AM (#31411672)
Yup. Starting is the hardest part. It's easy to be overwhelmed by the whole thing you have to do. It's much easier to say, "Okay I'm going to open the document and title it. That's it". Often once you do that its much easier to do the next step.

The other piece of advice I'd give is break tasks down. Write a paper is hard. Open a document is easy. Title the document is easy. Write a thesis is harder than those two but easier than writing an entire paper. Writing the first paragraph based on your thesis statement is easier than writing a paper.

If you have things broken down into steps its much easier to have a clear step by step plan on how to move forward.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by agumonkey on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:03PM (#31413546)
There's the 3 seconds to act too. Don't hesitate.. for positive attempts you want a fair amount of impulsivity.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by Overtonwindow on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @09:05AM (#31409935)
Try 37…
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by sateesh on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @09:16AM (#31410083)
A very good advice. When I am stuck worrying and not doing a task I should have been doing, I try with a small pomodoro interval of just 15 mins doing very minimal steps related to the task that won't need lot of mental energy. This helps me to reduce my anxiety and gradually I pick up my focus and am able to move forward.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by kosasbest on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @09:45AM (#31410525)
The old adage: Prepare and put your gym bag at your front door if you have problems trying to go to the gym
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by karls on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @03:03AM (#31419987)
I just want to add to the parent comment which I 100% agree with.

I have struggled with anxiety and fear-avoidance for a long time. Probably most of my adult life. It got to the point where I had to find external help in the form of a therapist. She specialises in cognitive behavioural therapy, which helped me take those first couple of steps. I got better after about 12 months of therapy, but felt like there was something missing in the CBT solution to the anxiety problem.

What really put things in a totally different gear was realising that the voice telling you to avoid, to put off, to cower and run from things, is just a voice. That voice feels like _you_, but it's not you. The voice is sometimes correct. Sometimes it's not. A part of CBT is questioning the unproductive thoughts and feelings, which helps, but it doesn't take this idea of "the voice being just a voice" to its conclusion. Just because you have a thought or a feeling does not mean you should take it literally, as the truth.

ACT, which I discovered by accident shortly after my epiphany, gets to the heart of it with defusion (de-fusing the internal chatter from your rational self) and five other core ideas. For me personally, the idea and practise of defusion was a core component in helping me deal with crippling anxiety. It requires work, but it's possible to feel great in the presence of _some_ anxiety and fear. It's possible to look forward to things which would normally make you anxious and avoidant.

Another book recommendation "A Liberated Mind" by Steven Hayes. I suggest reading a book or two and try to internalise these ideas through practise. No HN comment can provide the nuance and context you'll find in a book and through practise.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by huge87 on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:09PM (#31413605)
I just bought Acceptance and Commitment Therapy on Audible. I take book recommendations on HN relatively seriously so I'm looking forward to this read.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by tailspin2019 on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:25PM (#31413796)
Ditto, though my copy is coming in paperback form :)
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by patrickserrano on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @12:53PM (#31413377)
+1 for taking small steps. As someone who's dealt with anxiety for years, it's one of the most reliable ways for me to actually make progress when I'm overwhelmed.

I'll typically try making a list of the small steps I need to take, though I recognize that for some people seeing that list might make the anxiety worse. But for me it's a tangible step that allows me to cross off items and visualize the progress as I go which ends up reducing my anxiety about the task at hand. I do it for everything from work related projects to general "cleaning up the house" type work.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by tpoacher on Thursday May 26, 2022 @11:51AM (#31519853)
As David Lloyd George once quipped: "The best way to cross a vast chasm is to do so in a series of small jumps."
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by meken on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:45PM (#31452912)
ACT therapy is nice and was an important step for me to develop more mindfulness, but not the full solution.

I found ACT to be a bit like relying on willpower. There were only so many times I was “willing” to move forward with my feelings when my thoughts and feelings are working against the task, before I give in and give up.

They eventually win out.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by BIKESHOPagency on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:54PM (#31414184)
I use tanglo app (tanglo.app) and something about just clicking "start" on a small task is enough to break the cycle for me. Tanglo is also helpful in visualizing what I can REALISTICALLY get done in my day and what happens if I don't start.

When I don't start a scheduled task, it just keeps pushing it down further and further. If I procrastinate too long, tasks at the end get moved to tomorrow automatically. Which sucks. Small steps, click start.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by TimTheTinker on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @03:03PM (#31415035)
You must be either the developer or an early user - I tried to register but it says "Registration will be open soon! Please check back with us."
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by renaudg on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @06:30PM (#31428446)
This looks like a reboot of the "Timeful" app by Dan Ariely, which was bought then shut down by Google.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by MomciloM on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @07:34AM (#31408938)
I found the same thing work the best for me, but not always.
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by trenchgun on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @11:54AM (#31412519)
This is very good advice.

It can be also combined with a couple of neat tricks: talking with somebody about it & making a list about it.

Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by _nhh on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:32PM (#31413880)
This is really the only way it keeps getting better for me. Big big +1 on this one
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by agumonkey on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @01:00PM (#31413495)
someone posted an article about ACT not long ago, I couldn't find the acronym, thanks :)
Re:Ask HN: How to break anxiety/fear-avoidance cycle? by tailspin2019 on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @11:35AM (#31412250)
This is superb advice.