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Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by tgsovlerkhgsel on Thursday May 05, 2022 @04:46AM (#31271061)
Slaughterbots was meant to be a video against such technology, but I'm 100% sure there are plenty of companies who are pointing at it and saying "This. Exactly this. This is what we want."
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by RealityVoid on Thursday May 05, 2022 @05:29AM (#31271290)
Is it really more terrifying somehow than a guy with a machine gun going and mowing down civilians? Or a maniac in a truck plowing in pedestrians. In effect, the other approaches are a lot more accessible to anyone.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by CalRobert on Thursday May 05, 2022 @05:49AM (#31271395)
Yes, because it can scale massively and it removes even the chance of a moral reconsideration on the part of the killer. With a human soldier there's at least a chance they'll decide to disobey an order to murder innocent people.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by RealityVoid on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:46AM (#31271700)
How could smart drones scale massively more than firearms and trucks?

If anything, we see from the conflict in Ukraine that keeping smart weapons supplied in a modern conflict it a huge effort that needs a lot of interconnected players.

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by lm28469 on Thursday May 05, 2022 @08:12AM (#31272332)
This isn't the same problem at all. The weapons we have trouble supplying are huge (howitzer with smart rounds, &c.) and require good roads and rails

You could drop hundreds of autonomous drone by air, make them land somewhere and wait in standby until they get activated or detect a threat.

They scale massively because 1 guy with 100 rifles won't do much more than 1 guy with 1 rifle, 1 guy with 100 trucks won't move faster than 1 guy with 1 truck. 0 guy with 100 drones would potentially kill 100 guys simultaneously for cheap since switchblade style drones are glorified DJIs with a grenade straped at the front

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by RealityVoid on Thursday May 05, 2022 @08:50AM (#31272683)
I admit that control has the _possibility_ to scale well. Supply, on the contrary, it would be much harder to maintain.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by sangnoir on Thursday May 05, 2022 @12:53PM (#31275735)
That's another point in favor of drones: you can skip field maintenance and do it a the home base and deploy/recover them at time of mission, en masse. Human soldiers has to maintain their equipment in the field/forward base - which is a different set of logistical problems
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by ramesh31 on Thursday May 05, 2022 @09:29AM (#31273050)
>How could smart drones scale massively more than firearms and trucks?

I suspect we will start seeing the first true drone swarm deployments in Ukraine over the next couple years. The world is simply not ready for how horrifying it will be. These things can be manufactured for a few hundred bucks a piece. Sony can pump out 10 million PlayStations in a few months. What happens when that kind of logistics and manufacturing is applied to kamikaze drones? You get swarms of tens of thousands of them. The entire future of land warfare from this point on will be an arms race between drone swarms. And the swarms will take on combined arms aspects; there will be AA, AT, AP, incendiary, electronic warfare, observation, and hunter-killer variants. Winning wars in the future will consist of choosing the correct size and makeup of your swarm to counter the enemy's capability.

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by ceejayoz on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:51AM (#31271731)
One person can control, at most, about two guns and one truck at a time.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by dougabug on Thursday May 05, 2022 @07:00AM (#31271801)
> One person can control, at most, about two guns and one truck at a time.

A really big gun, or missile (battery)…

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by jrimbault on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:24AM (#31271577)
Isn't it the case that only 1 in X soldiers actually fires their weapon ? I think vaguely remember something to that effect.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by RealityVoid on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:43AM (#31271685)
If you refer to the WW1 claim floating around, then it is most likely false. If you are talking about the fact modern military has many nore support ropes than combat roles, then... yeah, but that tells nothing about the willingness to fire a gun.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by pmoriarty on Thursday May 05, 2022 @07:57AM (#31272193)
There's a book on this called On Killing by David Grossman.[1]

"In World War II, only 15 to 20 percent of combat infantry were willing to fire their rifles. In Korea, about 50 percent. In Vietnam, the figure rose to more than 90 percent."

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-S...

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by hnaccount_rng on Thursday May 05, 2022 @07:27AM (#31272008)
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by heavenlyblue on Thursday May 05, 2022 @04:46PM (#31278200)
I wonder what they start doing after enduring a single artillery barrage in a city. That must be horribly traumatising to see.

I recently came back home from travels and realised that our neighbour’s car burned down(I live in London), and it just struck me how horrible it looks like. That’s after seeing many videos of total destruction in Ukraine. It just never popped into my mind how unusual it is to see something like that.

That wasn’t even people dying, just practical realisation how not far we are from total civilisation collapse, if the majority of citizens wanted that.

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by Razengan on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:02AM (#31271470)
Right now, what spooks you more:

That a person with a gun is coming to kill you

Or there are tiny machines floating outside your windows, in your vents, on your ceiling, ready to stab you with an undetectable poison the instant someone far away pushes a button..

Which do you think you have a better chance of spotting and defending against?

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by asdff on Thursday May 05, 2022 @08:14AM (#31272348)
Do you imagine that having these tiny machines deployed, maintained, and ready to go in disparate locations around the world is any easier than today where we have larger machines deployed, maintained, ready to go, but in fixed locations under tight control? I am more fearful of a missile silo, personally.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by RealityVoid on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:39AM (#31271665)
The answer is both are terrifying. If someone with a gun wants you dead, you die. I see no particular reason drones should be more terrifying than the other.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by vba616 on Saturday May 07, 2022 @12:25AM (#31292136)
I'm picturing someone having trouble deciding who is the underdog in the original Terminator movie.

Also this:

https://xkcd.com/652/

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by imtringued on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:32AM (#31271615)
I'm pretty sure Slaughterbots was trying to provoke people into building DIY loitering munitions to prove the video wrong. The drones will be expensive, low in capability, can be intercepted (the video simply postulated that they can't be shot down by uh snipers?) and 99% of the time they will be controlled by humans. After all, being wrong on the internet is the best way to get a correct response.

I am honestly more scared of chemical weapons and barrel bombs. You know, things that have actually been confirmed to have devastating impact in Syria.

Somehow the typical hacker news commenter is worried about very precise robotic hit men operating in large groups to be used for indiscriminate killing when WW2 weapons were already enough to wipe out entire cities. You're more likely to have died from the atomic bombs deployed in Nagasaki or Hiroshima than from some tiny plastic drone with a 5 minute flight time.

I mean think about a hypothetical nuclear weapon that kills everyone recognized via facial recognition in a 10 kilometer radius. Most bystanders aren't important enough to have their face on that database.

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by ceejayoz on Thursday May 05, 2022 @06:50AM (#31271725)
> Most bystanders aren't important enough to have their face on that database.

If you have a drivers’ license or a passport, you’re in it.

> WW2 weapons were already enough to wipe out entire cities

Indiscriminately. Which gives you a big PR issue. Being able to kill only, say, every military-aged male in a city without touching anyone else is a bit different.

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by asdff on Thursday May 05, 2022 @08:11AM (#31272326)
I don't think that would blow over any better for the international community. You'd basically be targeting college students and high schoolers.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by ceejayoz on Thursday May 05, 2022 @08:13AM (#31272345)
Then adjust the criteria to "people who match a face in the hacked database from their military ID system", if you prefer.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by sudosysgen on Thursday May 05, 2022 @12:16PM (#31275240)
What if they just start wearing a balaclava?
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by laverya on Thursday May 05, 2022 @12:17PM (#31275259)
Obviously people trying to hide their identity are evil and thus OK to target.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by sudosysgen on Thursday May 05, 2022 @01:49PM (#31276470)
Good luck dealing with balaclava scarecrows if you just target anyone wearing one.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by laverya on Thursday May 05, 2022 @05:05PM (#31278404)
So just target only the ones that are moving! As a side benefit, you get to make this [0] a reality.

But seriously though, there's a lot of heuristics that can be used for "is a target and not a dummy". Will they be perfect? No. But they don't need to be.

0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm83FTA89AY

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by sangnoir on Thursday May 05, 2022 @12:47PM (#31275651)
Wearing a balaclava would bump the wearer to the highest priority.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by sudosysgen on Thursday May 05, 2022 @01:48PM (#31276450)
That doesn't work if everyone does it.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by laverya on Thursday May 05, 2022 @05:07PM (#31278430)
How many people are genuinely willing to wear something outside knowing that it will get them killed, and knowing that they would NOT be killed if they did not wear that piece of clothing?
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by tpoacher on Thursday May 05, 2022 @02:31PM (#31276912)
there is already research that can reliably identify individuals by their movement patterns
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by sudosysgen on Thursday May 05, 2022 @04:46PM (#31278202)
Yes, there is, but none that can reliably do so within 1-2 seconds from a drone going at a few hundred kph. I doubt that there ever will be, either.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by ceejayoz on Friday May 06, 2022 @06:17AM (#31283458)
The lack of imagination on things like this baffles me. It’s like the folks who dismissed early digital cameras because of the shitty image quality.

You couple the fast drones with slower surveillance ones at higher altitude to identify possible targets. Or pair them with local security cameras, or the victim’s cell phone pings.

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by asdff on Saturday May 07, 2022 @03:39AM (#31292831)
Whose to say the gait databases that these things are pulling from can't be fed garbage though
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by tpoacher on Friday May 06, 2022 @05:38PM (#31289851)
True! It's a bit like thinking people will suddenly start needing more than 64kb RAM or something.
Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by Trouble_007 on Thursday May 05, 2022 @07:21AM (#31271949)
>can be intercepted (the video simply postulated that they can't be shot down by uh snipers?)<

search: >'bird of prey trained to take-down drones'< @DDG : <https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q='bird of prey trained to...>

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by YeGoblynQueenne on Thursday May 05, 2022 @10:23AM (#31273735)
Military drones are already used for assassinations. Making them "autonomous" is only the next step to that.

But, here's the thing. Current tech-level drones are already extremely lethal to civilians. Given the state of modern AI, including the poor abilities for facial recognition in real-world situations, sending "autonomous" weapons to take out targets in civilian areas will only increase the number of civilian victims.

Not to mention, assassinations, in the first place.

Edit: I get the gist of your comment- that it's already possible to kill (civilians or not) in horrible ways. Yes, but why do we need yet another way to do that, then? The more ways there are to commit wanton murder and destruction, the worse, surely?

Re:Swarming drones autonomously navigate a dense forest by tpoacher on Thursday May 05, 2022 @02:28PM (#31276890)
As the quote from the league of legends series goes:

"Once it exists, a weapon will never be unmade, and it will be used."