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Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by eklavya on Saturday April 30, 2022 @04:18AM (#31214303)
Yeah, why care for the poor population even when Europe is busy buying oil for itself. It’s not like per capita consumption of the west is 10x or greater.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by nasut on Saturday April 30, 2022 @04:48AM (#31214429)
Well that would be 12kWh (EU) vs. 1.8kWh (India). Multiply by population 447M * 12 kWh = 5364 BkWh vs. 1360M * 1.8 kWh = 2448 BkWh from oil. So yes, EU is spewing twice the co2 from oil. That said, the EU has probably the strongest co2 emissions reduction programs out there atm. The EU for example reduced its co2 emissions by 19% 2019->2020. India’s co2 emissions OTOH grows 4-5% each year. So in that sense they are shooting themselves in the foot. Of course there are multitudes of things to consider (GDP, standard of living etc.) so blamegame is a bit misplaced.

For blame: all this pales in comparison to the US, which consumes over twice the oil per capita (27 kWh/capita) vs. EU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-oil?tab=table which make 27 kWh * 334M = 9000 BWh from oil alone and is barely reducing their total co2 emmissions. They reduced it by a whopping 1% 2009-2019

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by hagen2022 on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:21AM (#31214551)
One can always compare the per capita and blame the rich world for many issues. This is nice for a debate.

But at the end, poor + middle class of India suffer due to this. Sure the rich world ruined environment, but that cannot be reason to say India can do similar. The first to get affected will be the poor world (yes, incl. India) and then only the poor people in the west.

I understand this is a sensitive issue, as my wife is from India, and people do not like complaining about India (especially they do not like foreign news organisations like BBC/CNN/NYtimes posting negative news).

Please start thinking as global citizens (heck your people are running Twitter, Google, MS).

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by eklavya on Saturday April 30, 2022 @09:36AM (#31215982)
The problem is that you are cut off from the reality. The poor has to live and that means we need to have cheap energy. Get off the high horse and maybe engage with your governments to understand why nuclear power is still out of reach for developing nations. Forget about sharing green power tech.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by ngc248 on Saturday April 30, 2022 @04:28AM (#31214342)
exactly .... "rules for thee, but none for me". In an already resource constrained place like India, it will take time to switch to renewable resources. Until then the only option is fossil fuels.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by ZeroGravitas on Saturday April 30, 2022 @04:57AM (#31214467)
It doesn't seem to get talked about as much it should but the economically efficient way to net zero is for rich, but non-sunny places to install solar in poor but sunny places and split the carbon reduction 'credit'. It’s a win-win-win.

I wonder how much more effective in economically damaging Russia it would be to push solar (and efficiency, insulation etc.) in regions on its southern border.

EU should do it at home too, as its the smart thing to do regardless, but bang-for-buck probably depends more on a) geography, b) growth rate of electricity usage, c) displacement of coal power, followed by poorly regulated methane extraction.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by qart on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:39AM (#31214630)
India is already doing it. Not at a rapid enough pace to meet all of the national demand, but at least my state (KA) has the lowest coal consumption and is still selling electricity to other states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_photovoltaic_power_sta... sort by year and by capacity for highlights.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by ZeroGravitas on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:50AM (#31214688)
India does have some good work in this area but at the margin India will think "should I invest one more dollar in this?" and the answer will be "No, it will only gain me 99c that I can capture".

But that gain, unlike the carbon output, will be bounded by the national border, unless there's some way of exporting it for cash.

EU carbon tariffs will have a similar effect, making Indian goods relatively cheaper on the export market if they invest in solar.

This comes up again and again. The famous "Renewable Energy Without the Hot Air" for example is about how the UK could generate it's own power cleanly.

Which is effectively irrelevant in a global context of 60 Million vs 11 Billion people, but it makes phasing out fossil fuels seem harder so there's a lot of people pushing it as an unstated assumption.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by kzrdude on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:18AM (#31214542)
Tangential to this, there is the Morocco solar project - where the plan is to export via HVDC link to the UK - will this result in UK energy prices influencing those of Morocco? "Ideally" the production site should have access to cheaper energy since it's "their resource".
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by ZeroGravitas on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:30AM (#31214595)
Thats a good example. It would be better for 'global' warming if Britain just bought carbon credits from Morocco and skipped the transmission line.

Morocco gets cheap, clean energy independence and industrial investment, the world gets less fossil co2 and even if they get taken over by Martians in the future that don't respect human laws, the climate benefit is already delivered and can’t be "cut off".

However, the same groups that have poisoned the well on carbon "taxes", seem to have really done a number on the whole concept of offsets and emissions trading.

Free market economics? Not acceptable if it hurts fossil fuels and helps the poor, only vice versa it seems.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by pabs3 on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:36AM (#31214616)
The Gold Standard organisation funds projects that reduce carbon emissions and helps the poor:

https://www.goldstandard.org/our-story/gold-standard-feature...

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by kzrdude on Saturday April 30, 2022 @07:22AM (#31215138)
"Free market" economics are broken for nonrenewable resources, since they misprice them - don't take future scarcity into account at all, and encourage an all-you-can-extract economy.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by ZeroGravitas on Saturday April 30, 2022 @07:44AM (#31215266)
They're relatively easy to fix though.

But fossil fuels oligarchies destroy society and civilization just as much as they destroy the environment.

Faith in government, science, rule of law, democracy and economics have been polluted as thoroughly as the air.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by wewxjfq on Saturday April 30, 2022 @04:54AM (#31214456)
Europe is stopping it, India is asking for more. 140 countries could condemn the war in an UN vote - India couldn't.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by kzrdude on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:19AM (#31214545)
I'm a European. I think we have to accept that not the whole world has to care about a war in eastern Europe. For us, it's the world, but it's hypocritical to demand that everyone pays attention to our crisis.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by LightG on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:28AM (#31214585)
I generally agree - but considering this conflict could (unlikely but possibly) become a world war then, yes, other countries should pay attention.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by sumedh on Saturday April 30, 2022 @07:59AM (#31215347)
> yes, other countries should pay attention.

India is paying attention but India also knows that Russia has been good partner in the past, lot of Indian military has Russian equipment. You dont want to piss off your military partner.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by LightG on Sunday May 01, 2022 @07:35AM (#31224158)
If you're afraid of p!ssing off your military partner when it comes to quite simple right and wrong ... then they aren't your military partner, you are the slave, they are the master.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by sumedh on Sunday May 01, 2022 @07:53AM (#31224257)
What is right and wrong?

US killed millions of Iraqis and Afghans, yet Europeans still support the US, is it because Europeans are slaves and the US is master or is it because brown lives are worth less than white lives?

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by LightG on Monday May 02, 2022 @04:33PM (#31240537)
To stay on point ... a good partnership depends on shared values, which may (and probably should) extend to similarities in what is viewed as right and wrong.

If you cannot agree on that, or negotiate and compromise on that right or wrong, or influence your partner when you think things are going wrong, then ... it's not a partnership.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by sumedh on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:31PM (#31243755)
To stay on point by your own definition is there a slave master partnership between Europe and US because US kept killing millions of Iraqis and Afghans and Europe also shares those values or does Europe not share those values yet still keep partnering with US because they need US protection against Russia?
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by LightG on Thursday May 05, 2022 @02:58PM (#31277190)
"Let me stay on point ... by straying off point"

Sorry you couldn't stick with it.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by sumedh on Friday May 06, 2022 @10:49PM (#31291747)
Next time just remember, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by AmIDev on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:54AM (#31214706)
Should it be considered world war if it's only NATO vs Russia? WW2 involved millions from commonwealth(India contributed the largest volunteer military), I don't see India, China and Africa getting involved into NATO-Russia war directly. That excludes majority of the world's population.
Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by srvmshr on Saturday April 30, 2022 @06:52AM (#31214973)
True.

It does, but similar risks have come by before (in S Asia). India & Pakistan had a full confrontation in 1990s, when they were both nuclear capable & backed by Russia and US respectively. People at the helm of warcraft perhaps know where to draw the line. It is highly unlikely Putin will use tactical nukes or pre-emptively strike US/EU, no matter how grim the war looks.

People do not realize that the game of brinksmanship has played out several times in the past. We empathize Ukraine because news coverage & social media have brought the sounds of guns and rocket right to our doorstep. Horrific war crimes have happened, countless people died & children orphaned in Kosovo, Palestine, Kashmir etc. - but we can't connect with it because we don't see it flashed in the daily news.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by kzrdude on Saturday April 30, 2022 @07:18AM (#31215107)
It's very hard to understand what is actually at stake - how would nuclear weapons use actually play out. I'm curious, I just don't know. I have to imagine that and actual use of nuclear weapons would play out very differently from how it's often imagined (i.e the mutually assured destruction idea, or the end of all life on the planet meme).

My gut tells me that the balance of power is not at all as "equal" as it's claimed ("both sides have nukes") but there is enough uncertainly on all sides to want to test it.

The "usual" rules of gradual escalation probably apply. Of course, it's best to avoid any escalation because it can be an uncontrollable situation.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by nikanj on Sunday May 01, 2022 @04:03AM (#31223060)
The balance of power is ”both sides have nukes _and_ something to lose”

If a country is experiencing mass psychosis and wants to commit murder-suicide, it doesn’t really help that the other countries have nukes too

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by bitL on Saturday April 30, 2022 @02:12PM (#31217933)
> It is highly unlikely Putin will use tactical nukes or pre-emptively strike US/EU, no matter how grim the war looks.

I wouldn't be so sure about this. He has working hypersonics and this advantage would last very short time. Currently those hypersonics can't be even detected in time before they hit their targets and there is no real defense against them. He might just launch 100-200 of them with 100kT payload at military/strategic targets in Europe at the same time, level down parts of countries without any response outside submarines or US strategic nukes (their flight time is in minutes anywhere in Europe, insufficient time to react), and then given Europe would be written off for a century, he can try to negotiate terms with the US, assuming MAD is given if diplomacy fails and there is a proof already (destroyed Europe).

He perceives UA effectively in NATO (given heavy arm supplies) as an existential risk for Russia, so he might go all in.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by frontman1988 on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:46AM (#31214663)
How many of those 140 countries belong to the following :

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/9/infographic-which-co...

When half of your military weapons depend on another country you don't really risk angering them over some inconsequential vote.

Re:Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under i... by kylehotchkiss on Saturday April 30, 2022 @12:58PM (#31217375)
In India’s defense, not much of the world has condemned china’s aggression at the Indian border over the past 2 years, and this has factored into India’s response on Ukraine