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Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by mrep on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:19PM (#31111462)
There stock is up because they just beat earnings [0] and TSLA has 24 billion dollars worth of volume per day [1]. I'm pretty sure he could raise the 21 billion given some time.

[0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2022....

[1]: https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by devoutsalsa on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:28PM (#31111571)
He can always borrow it, too. Tesla is a volatile stock, but if he's not borrowing a huge percentage of his stake, he should be able to use it as collateral. Then he can sell later to pay it off when the timing is right.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by deckard1 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:34PM (#31112588)
Musk goes to the bank

Musk: I can haz money?

Bank: You said that Twitter isn't going to be a way to make money. That you "don't care about the economics at all". Your exact words.

Musk: ...

Bank: ...

Musk: Give me money

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by iepathos on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:14PM (#31113186)
Bank: I see your net worth is far beyond what you're asking for and you won't have a problem making payments with your income. I didn't even know credit scores got as high as yours. Here you go.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by jjav on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:47PM (#31114344)
> I didn't even know credit scores got as high as yours.

A bit of an aside, but the richest person I know (as in buys multi-million dollar cars on a whim and has many many of those) says his credit score is pretty mediocre because he's never had a loan. I'd thought having gazillion dollars in the bank would give you a good credit score but guess not.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by gonzo on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:19PM (#31114690)
correct. a credit score is mostly about one's demonstrated ability to service debt.

Just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean you'll make payments on a loan.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by bmitc on Thursday April 21, 2022 @11:35PM (#31117895)
The credit score system is really about incentivizing you to get, use, and keep credit cards, including retail credit cards, and loans, i.e. take on debt.

The fact that so many things require a high credit score is a forcing function for you to take on these debt instruments, and the credit score is a way for the system to optimize that it get its money.

The entire system is gamed against the consumers unwittingly or unwillingly forced to participate.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by HWR_14 on Friday April 22, 2022 @01:50AM (#31118614)
Your credit score is higher if you pay off your credit card in full every month. Although, yes, it does reward having multiple cards with a high limit.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tekknik on Friday April 22, 2022 @08:46AM (#31120944)
It’s almost like they’re testing your ability to manage a fund.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by seunosewa on Thursday April 21, 2022 @07:15PM (#31116346)
I believe the system was intentionally designed that way by lenders to make borrowing a universal habit.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by smoldesu on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:22PM (#31115361)
As another side note, the richest person I know regularly maxes out his credit card so he can pay it all down and rake in the score bump. Every couple times he does this, they issue him an upgraded card with less limits: the cycle continues.

Not a bad way to buy stuff if you have the means to pay it off.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by jjav on Friday April 22, 2022 @02:59AM (#31119030)
> regularly maxes out his credit card so he can pay it all down and rake in the score bump

Does it really?

I have a very high credit score but putting a large charge on one credit card (nowhere close to maxing it out though) dramatically drops my credit score for one month until I pay it off in full at the end of the month.

I pay my child's tuition in full for the year each August (school in California is way too expensive so it's a lot of money, but that's a different topic). I put it on the credit card to get some cash back. My credit score drops by about 150 points right away. Once I get the bill at the end of the cycle and pay it off, the credit score goes right back to where it was before. I don't get any bump though.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by devoutsalsa on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:47PM (#31115593)
Imagine the airline miles you’d get by purchasing Twitter on your credit card.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by k_sze on Friday April 22, 2022 @04:44AM (#31119477)
“Nobody’s gonna try to buy Twitter with a credit card, right?”

“Nah.”

“Alright, we don’t need BIGINT in the ‘balance’ column.”

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by no_wizard on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:05PM (#31115173)
I imagine once you have a verifiable net worth over a certain amount (at least 10 million in near cash assets + a hefty amount on hand) you are able to bypass certain things the rest of us simply can't. This is what I've heard second hand anyway
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tekknik on Friday April 22, 2022 @08:47AM (#31120951)
Once you have a balance above a few hundred thousand your bank starts treating you differently. Sometimes you even get a different entrance to the bank, different tellers, so on.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by MrMan on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:15PM (#31115286)
I can only get loans from my private bank because my credit score is bad. I only borrow on margin foe trading I don't really need other debt but it's embarrassing
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by thedailymail on Thursday April 21, 2022 @08:37PM (#31116900)
Not having loans is not one of Elon Musk's problems.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by Sebb767 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:31PM (#31114786)
As the saying goes: If I owe the bank one million dollars, I have a problem. If I owe the bank one billion dollars, the bank has a problem.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by rasz on Thursday April 21, 2022 @06:55PM (#31116179)
The saying goes:

"If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."

and comes from 1976 "As I see it: the autobiography of J. Paul Getty". There were no billionaires back then. When you owe a bank 20 Billion while being worth 260 you are still in the first category.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by opo on Saturday April 23, 2022 @11:47PM (#31141132)
There were obviously billionaires back then. For example, J. Paul Getty was worth an estimated 6 billion when he died in 1976.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Paul_Getty

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by metadat on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:20PM (#31115326)
Wrong in this case.

Here the bank can reclaim what is owed via other means.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by sangnoir on Thursday April 21, 2022 @06:36PM (#31116031)
Having to find "other means" to reclaim is exactly what makes it the banks problem.

Do you think it's easy to get someone with access to billions of dollars (of your money) to do something they'd rather not? They can tie you up in the courts for years since they're basically equal powers: an $800 billion bank doesn't get better lawyers than a guy worth $1 billion. A bank vs someone with just a million dollars means the individual is at a major disadvantage as lawyer fees can easily exceed that amount in attritional lawfare.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by Sebb767 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @08:10PM (#31116729)
Also, the reason the bank suddenly wants to reclaim that money might be that the wealth has vanished. If Tesla drops 99% for whatever reason, they will have a big problem getting their money back from stocks.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by sangnoir on Thursday April 21, 2022 @08:20PM (#31116788)
That's a great point: counterparty risk is a much bigger concern on a billion-dollar loan
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by mywittyname on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:18PM (#31114001)
Musk's net worth his highly volatile. Telsa is trading at pretty high 200 P/e, one bad quarter could crater the stock price. Space X is private, which carries its own issues. Add to that the risk to these assets if Musk dies. Or hell, even it Musk merely "spooks" investors with his flamboyance.

This is a insanely risky vanity project.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by littlestymaar on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:57PM (#31114474)
No matter how volatile his worth is, it's just around a tens of the said worth and there's no way it loses 90% of its value overnight, even if TSLA's valuation is arguably nonsensical.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by mywittyname on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:43PM (#31114933)
It doesn't need to lose 90% of its value overnight, 30% is enough to trigger a call on margin loans.

Within the past year, Telsa stock slide from a $1209/sh peak to $766/sh in the span of about five months.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by littlestymaar on Thursday April 21, 2022 @06:33PM (#31115994)
And what? Can't he just add more securities as a collateral if it happens?
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by HWR_14 on Friday April 22, 2022 @02:00AM (#31118689)
If he has it. At standard margin rates, he'd need to put up ~$140 billion in TSLA stock to cover his TWTR offer. How much can TSLA slide before he doesn't have that. Keep in mind, private companies (SpaceX, Twitter in this hypothetical) cannot be used for margin purposes.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tekknik on Friday April 22, 2022 @08:53AM (#31121007)
Why would he have tu up up almost 4x the loan amount? He just needs to cover the loan.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by HWR_14 on Friday April 22, 2022 @09:20AM (#31121223)
When using stock as collateral for a loan, it's not uncommon to get a loan for 30% of the value of the stock. Certainly not 100%.

In this case, MS has offered him a loan for 20% of the value of his stock.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tekknik on Monday May 02, 2022 @08:20AM (#31234173)
You can still sell the rest of the stock and cover a majority of the loan. I still fail to see why you need way more money than the loan amount to pay it off.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by jack_pp on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:15PM (#31113193)
It's about him defaulting on the loan which is not possible considering his shares in Tesla etc. not about him borrowing for investment purposes
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by colinmhayes on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:40PM (#31114266)
There's a not totally unreasonable chance that tesla is 10x lower next year. That would mean his net worth is basically equivalent to the loan he would need. Seems pretty risky.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by mehrdada on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:44PM (#31114307)
We don’t know the interest rate of that margin loan but you can be goddamn certain whoever underwrote the loan calculated that risk more precisely than HN crowd such that the rate justifies the default risk.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by kurupt213 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:26PM (#31114106)
You can default on a loan regardless of your net worth; you can even default on a secured loan. The default is what triggers the civil proceedings for a judgement and forced liquidation of assets
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by accountofme on Friday April 22, 2022 @05:31AM (#31119722)
I have to disagree. It is about the risk of his counterparties. If their risk is deemed too high, they will start liquidating assets to get minimise their risk.

Just look at what recently happened in the nickel markets on the London Metals Exchange when a Chinese Nickel Producer had a margin call against a $2bn short position.

Tldr: the brokers liquidated their position due to the unnecessary risk of having a margin call over a weekend.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by conductr on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:22PM (#31113283)
Bank: put that sweet sweet Tesla stock in this account and take what you want
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by darawk on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:55PM (#31114438)
It's a secured loan. The bank doesn't care if it makes money or not.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by CamperBob2 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @09:03PM (#31117078)
Bank: "Do you want that in twenties, or fifties?"
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by Apocryphon on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:54PM (#31113709)
Instead of the bank, what if he went to SoftBank. Imagine the possibilities of an Elon Musk-Masayoshi Son collaboration.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by gonzo on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:23PM (#31114718)
Could be like We Work, Greensill Capital, or Wirecard, or it could be like GoTo.

Only one way to find out though.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by AlchemistCamp on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:33PM (#31114815)
It could also be more like Alibaba and double or triple the 37B profit Softbank's Vision Fund made this year.

I would not bet against Musk.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by Anon1096 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:48PM (#31113651)
The other half of the money was borrowed against his stocks already. He probably can't get a favorable rate on the other half so 21 million is coming out of pocket.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by discodave on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:34PM (#31112592)
Pretty sure that this filing shows he is $21 billion short on the borrowing front.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by valleyjo on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:44PM (#31114941)
He’s already borrowing 12.5B via a margin loan against his assets. Maybe that’s the most he can get away with.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by hackerfromthefu on Thursday April 21, 2022 @06:27PM (#31115946)
Interested in a source for this?
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by andreareina on Friday April 22, 2022 @05:21AM (#31119665)
It's this para in TFA:

> (ii) A separate debt commitment letter, dated April 20, 2022 (the “Margin Loan Commitment Letter”), from Morgan Stanley Senior Funding, Inc. and certain other financial institutions party thereto as commitment parties (collectively, the “Margin Loan Commitment Parties”) pursuant to which the Margin Loan Commitment Parties have committed to provide $12.5 billion in margin loans (the “Margin Loan Facility”), the proceeds of which will be distributed or otherwise made available to Purchaser; and

The letter: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1418091/000110465922...