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Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by rtkwe on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @11:04PM (#31105652)
The energy is pretty perfectly fungible so it makes about as much sense credited to the state as it does to the wider grid. If you just look at CA it generated 97% of its energy needs in state from renewable energy at that time. That it was connected to a larger grid so it was generating excess power dirtily doesn't really change that math.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by ploxiln on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @11:59PM (#31105921)
Electrical power is fungible, but the time it is available is not. There is usually near-peak power usage just after sun-down. So while a large amount of "clean" power was generated in the middle of the day and sold to other states, after sun-down a significant portion of the power used in the state was "un-clean".

Even if California made it the final 3% to reach 100% renewable energy (by the headline metric), it will still depend on a significant amount of non-renewable energy for significant parts of every single day (or else it will have blackouts).

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by onion2k on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:31AM (#31106855)
Even if California made it the final 3% to reach 100% renewable energy (by the headline metric), it will still depend on a significant amount of non-renewable energy for significant parts of every single day (or else it will have blackouts).

It's not like you can ramp a coal-fired or nuclear power station up and down on a whim either though. It takes time and planning to modify the output if you don't have storage capacity. Power companies do a lot of predictive analysis to forecast demand and make sure they're running a little ahead. Here in the UK we even have a term called "TV pickup" where the electricity demand for the country increases significantly immediately after popular TV shows when we all go and put our kettles on for another cup of tea[1].

Power demand varies a lot, and in a reasonably predictable way, so you're fine so long as you have a mix of generation technologies. For most places that'll end up being solar, wind and nuclear, with extensive storage capacity.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by doikor on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:27AM (#31107133)
> It's not like you can ramp a coal-fired or nuclear power station up and down on a whim either though.

At least nuclear you can relatively fast. In terms of KW/min change rate faster then most gas peaker plants. It is not done much outside of France though as the operating costs of a nuclear power plant are pretty much identical when operating at 5% or 100% output.

edit:

German nuclear power plants also used to do load matching.

https://www.oecd-nea.org/upload/docs/application/pdf/2021-12...

Source for the KW/min change rate of nuclear vs CCGT/coal

https://snetp.eu/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SNETP-Factsheet-...

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by midasuni on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:43AM (#31106915)
TV pick-up used to be a thing when 17 million people watched Corrie in real time.

Those types of real time viewing figures are limited to live England matches in the euros/World Cup, and very unusual events like the PM’s covid broadcast back in 2020

I’m surprised the US doesn’t have the phenomenon during the super bowl. I guess the lack of kettles and the main attraction of the Super Bowl being the adverts dampens it down though.

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by FuriouslyAdrift on Thursday April 21, 2022 @07:05AM (#31107942)
We have the Super Flush... when everyone goes to the bathroom at half-time and at the end of the game.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by tomatocracy on Thursday April 21, 2022 @08:55AM (#31108746)
Coal is also able react relatively quickly to flex up/down within a range once running but has relatively high start costs and minimum run time (startup/shutdown takes longer). In the UK, the remaining coal fired plants still regularly participated in the balancing mechanism over the winter, for example (at sometimes eye-watering prices due to those factors along with high emissions costs).
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by throw0101a on Thursday April 21, 2022 @11:26AM (#31110702)
> It's not like you can ramp a coal-fired or nuclear power station up and down on a whim either though.

You can with nuclear: thermally it is kept running, but the steam bypasses the generators and so there is no electrical production.

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by asdfaoeu on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:34AM (#31106063)
That's true but no one is suggesting they stop now right? This is just a milestone.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by rogers18445 on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @11:15PM (#31105704)
In that case the metric of how much power the state requires in the context of renewable energy is useless. Instead state the % of overall energy production in the state being renewable.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by SamBam on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:30AM (#31106051)
Disagree.

"97% of some state's energy production was renewable" doesn't tell you much, because they could be a state that hardly burns any fossil fuels.

"California managed to produce enough renewable energy to power 97% of the needs of a state the size of California" actually tells you how much renewable energy it generated, and why that's a big deal.

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by trenchgun on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:52AM (#31106390)
The problem is that it's just not true, when formulated in that way.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by rogers18445 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:36PM (#31112617)
In that case, you need to provide additional information. Because this coverage is not consistent, since renewables are intermittent and storage appears to be a dream.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by rmbyrro on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:32AM (#31107463)
We're they keeping the dirty generation at surplus level for safety precautions, due to renewable sources unreliability?

If yes, I think the math is misleading.

It doesn't matter if you generate 97% from renewables if you can't trust it and still need to keep dirty sources, even during renewable peak...

Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by usrn on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:37AM (#31106884)
The implication here is that you don't need the non-renewable part. That's not true if you have to have it when the renewable part isn't producing power.
Re:California grid set record of 97% renewable power on April 3 by trenchgun on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:51AM (#31106381)
You basically just told us you don't understand how electric grids and electricity markets function.