News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by nickysielicki on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @01:49PM (#31086396)
I’m surprised that Apple doesn’t have a desire to play this role. They don’t sell ads so there’s no cannibalism and they have painted themselves (and advertised themselves) publicly as a company that cares about privacy and security. It seems like a natural avenue to win users in a world where the Windows alternative has more analytics and spyware than ever.

A man can dream.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by tyrfing on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:42PM (#31087974)
> They don’t sell ads so there’s no cannibalism

Apple sells huge amounts of ads, I believe it's the fastest growing part of the business right now. Estimates are $5 billion in advertising revenue in 2021, with one projection of $20 billion annually within 3 years. In addition to this, Google pays them $15 billion to be the default search engine and sell ads.

https://www.ft.com/content/074b881f-a931-4986-888e-2ac53e286...

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by greenyoda on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @08:51PM (#31091436)
Archive of FT article on Apple Ads, to avoid paywall: https://archive.ph/EkWNq
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by s3p on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @11:26PM (#31092478)
The hero we needed
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by gpanders on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @09:22PM (#31091642)
Where do they sell ads outside of the App Store?
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by inferiorhuman on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:54PM (#31092291)
Off the top of my head there are ads for third-party apps in the Apple Health app, ads for subscriptions and whatever in the Music app, ads for the Apple credit card in the Wallet app, ads for completely irrelevant crap via "curated" lists in the Maps app (no way the SF Chronicle is getting free placement in Apple Maps).
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by PokestarFan on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @02:18PM (#31100899)
I mean for first-party ads that makes sense
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by admax88qqq on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:10PM (#31086671)
Apple only nominally cares about the web. They would rather all interactions go through apps and the app store where they get their cut.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by toper-centage on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:30PM (#31086968)
It's funny because if you go watch the iPhone launch presentation, Jobs was all about the web, and having web apps on your phone. Fast forward and PWA are just recently possible, barely supported, and Apple would really prefer you not to use them. The incentives are clear, but it's still a sad story.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by hbn on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:26PM (#31087724)
It's not so much that Jobs was "all about the web," it's just that he didn't want people writing bad software for the iPhone so he was against allowing third-party apps on it until after much convincing.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by _jal on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:36PM (#31087071)
> Jobs was all about the web

That was just the best answer he had to questions about third-party apps until they had the infra in place for it.

Apple will never tell you ahead of time about changes like that. So, while I wouldn't exactly call it lying, you'll get answers like the above.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by soperj on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:26PM (#31087725)
Why wouldn't you call it lying?
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by glatisaint on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:45PM (#31088016)
Because it was the truth at the time.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by scarface74 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:33PM (#31087851)
Apple “cares about the web” and wants people to use the web because Google pays them $12 billion+ a year to be the default search engine.

Most of the money Apple gets from the App Store is from pay to win games - north of 80%. It came out in the Epic Trial.

Apple doesn’t really care if your banking app is a website or an app. They don’t make money either way.

Most apps on the App Store that could be a web app don’t charge users.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by s17n on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @04:42PM (#31088791)
The more native apps you use, the stickier the ios platform is. To the extent that they don't care whether you use the web or not, it's only because they've already won in the markets that they care about and don't really view Android as a serious threat anymore.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by scarface74 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @04:56PM (#31088999)
Every single app on my phone besides Overcast (the podcast player) has an Android version. Hardly any non game app developer creates apps for iOS only.

Not only that, the data for those apps are on a remote server that is accessible via any other platform. Even when an app uses the standard file picker, you can choose any installed cloud storage device to save and load files - ie iCloud, Dropbox, Google Drive etc.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by lern_too_spel on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:47PM (#31088034)
Apple gets at least $99 per year plus device sales and usage data if it's an app. They also get to sell App Store ads to competing banks.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by scarface74 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @04:39PM (#31088763)
$99 a year is a nothingburger. It wouldn’t even move the needle enough to motivate them. That’s not even pure profit.

But the money they make on ads in the App Store has to pale in comparison to how much they get from Google

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by searchableguy on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @05:12PM (#31089245)
Apple said there are 20 million registered developers in 2018.

Now there must be more but $99 * 20 million is not nothing in annual revenue which is mostly profit.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by brokencode on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @07:52PM (#31090937)
When their annual revenue is $368 billion and their net income is $95 billion (in 2021), a couple hundred million dollars doesn’t really move the needle.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by hackerfromthefu on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @11:38AM (#31098504)
off by an order of magnitude. 20 million by $99 is 2 billion, which is >4% of the net income.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by scarface74 on Wednesday April 20, 2022 @12:57PM (#31099822)
Which is still not accurate, most “registered developers” aren’t “paying developers”.

If you have a company with 100 iOS developers, you only need to pay for one account that has permission to submit an app.

If you are exclusively a Mac developer, you don’t have to pay anything unless you are submitting to the Mac App Store.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by scarface74 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @06:59PM (#31090492)
App review, XCode, each app gets a certain amount of iCloud storage outside of what the user pays, bandwidth, etc.

A “registered developer” is not necessarily a “paying developer”, you can register as a developer to get documentation etc.

If you are working for a company creating an app, not all developers need to pay to publish an app. Also Mac developers don’t pay to distribute an app.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @05:14PM (#31089294)
> nothingburger

What the heck is a nothingburger?

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by lupire on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:35PM (#31087036)
For news, the common AMP use case, Apple uses Apple News news.apple.com as their version of AMP hijacking websites.

It's not a paid app, just part of the walled garden experience.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by enos_feedler on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:17PM (#31086768)
Glad you’ve talked with leadership there and can confirm what many suspect but can’t prove
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by admax88qqq on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:45PM (#31087206)
Fine, allow me to rephrase

Based upon their actions I don't believe that Apple cares about the web beyond the bare minimum they have to to provide a tolerable browser experience for their users until everything happens via Apps.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by enos_feedler on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @08:16PM (#31091148)
What have other browser makers done, beyond the status quo that has demonstrated a browser experience that is beyond tolerable, perhaps even good?
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by pid-1 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:03PM (#31087419)
Understanding how a company makes money will tell you a lot more than talking with any leader

That's even more true for publicly traded companies

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by scarface74 on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:34PM (#31087872)
Apple makes money on games with in app purchases. Not random apps that don’t charge users on the phone.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by nixass on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:21PM (#31086833)
Is it brown in there?
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by nomel on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:40PM (#31087953)
> I’m surprised that Apple doesn’t have a desire to play this role.

They're being paid handsomely, by Google:

> In 2020, The New York Times reported that Apple receives an estimated $8-12 billion per year in exchange for making Google the default search on its devices. According to one analyst, Google's payment to Apple in 2021 to maintain this status quo may have reached up to $15 billion.

1. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/01/05/google-pays-apple-stay-...

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by mdavidn on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @05:15PM (#31089300)
AMP pages consume less power (thus battery life) on Apple's mobile devices.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by nostromo on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @03:15PM (#31087547)
Apple is disincentivized to take this on.

Apple sells ads on search indirectly via Google. (Google pays Apple to be the default search engine.)

Google’s payment to Apple is bigger than the revenue Apple makes from the Apple Watch.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by 1propionyl on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:13PM (#31086718)
Apple does not offer an equivalent tool, however as of iOS 13, the system hooks exist for one to be implemented. In particular, there is Christian Selig's Amplosion (same author as the Apollo Reddit client)[1], which works quite well. Costs a few dollars up front, but well worth it.

There is sadly not a version or equivalent on macOS, but Christian has confirmed it is in-development.

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amplosion-redirect-amp-links/i...

P.S. Pairs well with PiPifier to bypass YouTube not allowing picture-in-picture or playing in the background without a subscription, and a good ad blocker.

Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by dexterdog on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:33PM (#31087019)
Why don't people just use a redirect extension and redirect ^https?:\/\/(.)(\/amp\/|\?amp|\?amp=.)$ to https://$1
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by lupire on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @02:36PM (#31087067)
Because that only works in browsers with extensions, and extensions are yet another third party to trust.
Re:De-AMP: Cutting out Google and enhancing privacy by dexterdog on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:31PM (#31092117)
Who doesn't use a browser with extensions? And it's open source. It's not phoning home.