There are two significant dangers:

1) (set) A bad trip can result in a massive setback in terms of one's mental health -- which can take months or even years to overcome. This risk is significantly mitigated by the presence of an expert (which may be a therapist, and may be a seasoned psychonaut) who can talk through issues as they arise for the tripper.

2) (setting) People on mushrooms occasionally do really stupid shit. A naive user might not expect the trip to last for hours, realize they're "late" for some real-world engagement, and get into a car to drive there. Early into one of my first trips, I noticed that a 20m cliff appeared to be getting shorter... nearly short enough to jump. This can be mitigated by the presence of an expert (or, honestly, almost any sober adult), who should ensure that the immediate environment is effectively baby-proofed.

>A bad trip can result in a massive setback in terms of one's mental health -- which can take months or even years to overcome

This is extremely rare. For perspective, there are people who drink once and overdo it, and end up dying in accidents or fights. But no one talks about it because it's equally rare and alcohol is socially accepted.

>People on mushrooms occasionally do really stupid shit.

Sober people do really stupid shit all the time, too.

Anecdotally I've taken 6g of dried shrooms (they are decriminalized here, for what that's worth) and was still able to refill my coffee and walk up and down a flight of stairs without spilling it or falling. I still wouldn't drive like that, but liquor impairs my fine motor skills a lot more. Driving myself to the hospital if I had to would've been possible off shrooms, but I can't say the same about half a bottle of whiskey.

Every drug is slightly different for every individual and no two highs are identical, sure, but for most nothing bad happens with psychedelics.

> This risk is significantly mitigated by the presence of an expert (which may be a therapist, and may be a seasoned psychonaut) who can talk through issues as they arise for the tripper.

> Shamans, curanderos and experienced users of ayahuasca advise against consuming ayahuasca when not in the presence of one or several well-trained shamans

I think a seasoned psychonaut friend who actually cares about you and isn't trying to get paid might be nice.

What the hell does a therapist have to do with it? You can just tell this is going to be another bs licensed profession in the future. Welcome to Spores'R-Us may I take your order.

Not everybody can find a seasoned psychonaut, though. The closest they'll have access to is their drug dealer. A therapist with a clean supply and training in trip support is preferable for two reasons: the clean supply, and the legal system. You don't go to the cops if your dealer steals your wallet and car while you're tripping on whatever you bought. If your therapist is a shithead, there's a licensing body you can report that to.

I feel a little bit like I'm tripping right now reading this comment.

You... trip.. with your drug dealer? Huh?

And if your therapist has a "clean supply" and you buy from them, are they not now your drug dealer?

How are these people stealing your car?

WHAT.

Hilarious.

No, I don't trip with my dealer. Nor do I recommend it: I suggest that a risk you could incur is your dealer stealing from you while you're blitzed on the floor of your apartment. And should that happen, the police will happily book you for admitting to one crime while reporting another.

And, yes, your therapist would technically be your dealer at that point. But, key difference: the strictures of legality are stacked in your favor at that point.

But why am I blitzed on the floor with a sketchy dealer in my apartment?

I go outside to buy my drugs like a gentleman. If the cops come calling just tell them Dave's not here man.

Now that the goal posts are squarely on the moon, let's put them back into their original position. We've established that your dealer isn't trip sitting in the absence of an experienced friend. So who is?

Where did we establish this? If you don't personally have an experienced friend willing to do this you can always go out and make one. That would also allow for safer and easier access to the illicit substances.

If that is too overwhelming and difficult perhaps you're not ready for the experience in the first place. This isn't a dig at anybody.

The absolute necessity for a guide is also a completely baseless claim. It is prudent advice I suppose but nobody can really promise you a risk free trip or good results.

This is hardly uncharted territory. I'd start with reading some Terence McKenna rather than taking advice from randoms online/offline.

There is a reasonable body of work and advice on the subject available for those who seek it but you need to use your own judgment, and have good judgment.

Paying for an authority figure (note that I specifically opted not to use the word expert) to do your thinking for you doesn't always work.

Am I talking to a sober person, or are you still tripping from your first hit of my writing?

If you are afraid of your dealer don't tell them your address. Also, find a not scary one. Meet in public. I don't understand your scenario.

Also if your therapist is selling you shrooms that is still a felony for both of you despite them having a license. The license is for therapy only, not a get out of jail free card.

If a researcher is administering shrooms as part of a study I think you can relax about your car being stolen buddy. Or take the bus there just in case. :P

Yeah, still tripping

You said: "I suggest that a risk you could incur is your dealer stealing from you while you're blitzed on the floor of your apartment."

And I suggested there's no reason your dealer should ever know where you live. So your best response is to call me high. Alright'y then, heh.

Reread the following and then re-evaluate what I've written in that context:

> Not everybody can find a seasoned psychonaut, though. The closest they'll have access to is their drug dealer.

Nowhere did I suggest that anything following that was a good idea.

My apologies if I misunderstood.

From my understanding therapists can help you “integrate” your experience (post trip) into your everyday life. Having someone to help you figure out how you can apply useful feelings/mindsets you may have had during the experience seems (to me) helpful in maintaining any sort of benefit longer term.

Who and what bestows upon them such powers other than their own claims? The legal research of psychedelics has only recently resumed and is only available to a very select few.

Well, clandestine psychedelic assisted therapy has been going on for at least a few decades and seemed to be largely based on both psychedelic experiences had by the therapist themselves, and trial and error - which you could argue is not too different from shamanic practice.

I’m not sure how much, if any, scientific rigor was applied in the past - I hope that changes.

A trained therapist (the definition of which will have to wait) is crucial when you leave the domain of surface psychological work, which can last many years even at above high doses without a correct structure in place and understanding of the phases of psychedelic work (there are two phases: sense tuning, where 99% of journeys end because of lack of attention control and reactive immersion of the attention in sense perception changes such as visual or auditory hallucination which then become full experiences due to the immersion; and the work phase, where you coordinate with the psychedelic on the unfolding of your intent). Once you begin work on root causes of the psychological structure a seasoned psychonaut may not be sufficient, unless they have themselves done root work, because if seasoned means years of experience at high doses at the surface of the structure, they don't have the capacity to hold you and at the same time allow you to continue through root work, when your points of reference framework is taken apart temporarily for the purpose of understanding the pattern of self-judgement that is ingrained in the foundation of your perception of reality, and during that short period of time when your points of reference are suspended, everything within your present environment including empty space reveals a memory that is connected to self-judgement and which triggers self-judgement in the moment. This is happening while the psychedelic is digging out the root of that pattern and until it is dug out, your inner and outer perception becomes a unified experience of self-judgement. Until the root is uncovered, and prior to that day of therapy, the experience of self-judgement in daily life was a series of disconnected nodes in an invisible graph. Depending on your involvement in self contemplation, some patterns within the graph may have become known to you, but that didn't stop the experience of recreating situations that further the self-judgement. Once the root is uncovered in therapy, the whole graph becomes available to your conscious mind and you are able to clearly see the initial experience or set of experiences from which the self-judgement pattern evolved, and are at the same time able to understand every single past experience that had the mildest expression of that pattern and see the aspect of your personal identity that is the growth of those experiences. Most importantly, from that moment onwards integration becomes possible, integration being the recognition of the pattern in the present situation and connection of the present situation to the root of the pattern which enables you to introduce conscious response into what previously was habitual reaction, thus transforming the pattern. Apologies for going off track but it seemed useful to share.

The hell that a therapist has to do with it is the one you are experiencing in the moments just before the root gets uncovered, which hell may seem to last an eternity as the uncountable previous experiences of self-judgement become condensed into the space of now, and not just the experiences, but the very part of your personal identity to which in a way you are fully attached and without which you would feel loss, even though you consider it a pattern that introduces chaos into your daily experience. A good therapist, even one without extensive personal root cause psychedelic experience, will be able to help you navigate that hell, and reach the root. Without the proper structure and guidance you might not reach that experience of even beginning the work on the root, and if you do, a different outcome could be that you do not uncover the root, remain with the memory of a bad trip in which "I got stuck in a loop of self-judgement that seemed to never end", and are potentially further away from coming back to that subject and finishing the work by burying the root due to this experience, because if I went through that and didn't finish it in that sitting, I am for sure gonna take a nice long break from trying to understand self-judgement, and the condensed experience that would have led to uncovering the root will have had at least some temporary impact on my sensitivity, so I'll be fine dealing with self-judgement for a while.

I completely understand your worry though, and have one of my own, because it seems to me very possible that a future awaits where the structure of psychedelic work is not known, and the work will be limited to the surface, curing depression, learning incredible skills, and not realise the possibilities for the deep work. My worry is that psychedelics will be productised before their depth capacity is fully understood, and the product will be so appealing, near limitless in application and well marketed, that the depth work will have to wait for the next disruption opportunity in the product cycle, which in this market seems to be counted in the thousands of years.

better off just having a few drinks then since it's safer.

Alcohol is a depressant. It exacerbates depression.

Alcohol's classification as a depressant refers to depression of neurotransmission, not the mental affliction known as depression.

alcohol has many effects that affect/interact with mood and mood disorders.

TL;DR alcohol is not helpful and can be very disruptive for some.

it doesn't https://health.usnews.com/conditions/mental-health/depressio...

I'm tired of hearing this. Alcohol is a CNS depressant. It slows down your nervous system. It is not a depressant by your definition.

Alcohol is not as effective of a treatment for depression as P. Cubensis.

The possibility of a bad trip in someone who is not prepared for the experience should not be understated. When reality crumbles around you for the first time, you may not make the best decisions and could hurt yourself or others. Novice users should definitely start with a low dose, and be in the company of someone they trust in an environment where they feel safe.

Definately agree. Two years ago, the death of a close friend lead me to try psilocybin as a means gaining a different perspective / coping with the loss. I don't think my scale was calibrated properly and ended up taking a fairly large dose. I wasn't at all prepared for the come up, where my body felt like it was overheating and I kept drinking chugging water feeling as though I was going to pass out. It scared the hell out of me. Luckily, I was able to call my friend who was experienced with this type of stuff and he guided me through it. If it wasn't for him, I definitely would've freaked out and done something stupid. The experience scared me that I wouldn't touch the stuff outside of micro doses.

Seprately to the point above, I eventually noticed that I could get really emotional on a micro-dose and would feel suicidal. I once did a micro-dose before work in the morning that resulted in sending a very emotionally charged email to a coworker. Haven't touched the stuff since then.

I agree with everything you said, but would also advise caution for more experienced users as well.

Furthermore not everyone can deal with the aftermath of a bad trip. I've seen people get messed up for a long time because they believed the delusions they had.

Yep. 15 years later, still messed up. Not with delusions, but with the constant fear of being in that state again. The descent (is it the correct translation?) was more than particularly rough. I was kinda anxious before, but after it's been a constant hell of anxiety/depression/stress, avoiding anything that can trigger these feelings (yeah, I'm looking at you, sugar).

So be extreeemely careful with this.

> the only significant danger from taking mushrooms comes from the police

If you have a history of mental illness in your family, it is not advised to experiment with psychedelics as they can waken up latent mental illness you never thought you even had.

Psilocybin containing mushrooms & truffles were once legal in Ireland and you could just walk into a headshop and buy them like cigarettes. They were banned after someone jumped from a balcony to their death[0] after taking them, presumably after having an acute psychosis.

[0] https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-tragedy-led-...

The popular association between psychedelics and jumping from a great height originated with another crusade by America's columnist Art Linkletter, and his claim that his daughter jumped from her window to her death because she had taken LSD 6 months before.

IMO it's the circulation of this trope that kills. People on psychedelics while having emotional issues and acting out know exactly how they're expected to behave.

And apparently, this guy jumped less than an hour after taking a small amount of them. I can't imagine he was feeling much of anything yet, although others' experiences may vary from mine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/should-the-law-be-based-on-a...

Obviously you never had a bad trip. If you had, you'd understand the power and dangers it can have to a person.

I've had a few (always learned a lot, so all net positive experiences) but I understand the damage it can do for a person that's not fully mentally stable.

Maybe not exactly the same, but I'm dealing with artifacts of a bad LSD trip even years later. I wish I hadn't done it.

What kind of artifacts, if you're willing to share?

I'd call them "intrusive thoughts", like a (silent) voice in my own head that tells me something demeaning about myself (not actually it, but similar to "I'm a racist".)

But when faced with the real world manifestation of these ideas, my emotions play out like these thoughts are indeed false. And I'd expect the reinforcement to correct this over time. But it hasn't. Causes great anxiety in quiet moments, and i'm hyper aware of certain social situations. It also comes up in dreams sometimes.

The idea about myself came up mid-trip, and from it poured out empathy for others (good) but somehow the anxiety inducing parts never left.

The other comments have pointed this out, but I really want to emphasize how bad psychedelic drugs can be for the mental health of some people.

Note that amphetamines also carry similar risks: for example, if given to someone with bipolar disorder, they can cause schizoaffective disorder.

They're forced to say that. Though any reference to alcohol should come with a similar warning.

I agree with the safety. Had an astronomical trip yesterday and I feel great for it. Fascinating journey into the nature of my consciousness and the things I fear for no reason.

I wish it was decriminalized here. Watching friends struggle and even losing a few despite knowing a potential treatment makes me incredibly angry.

False. Dangerously false.

A depressed person has an increased likelihood of an intensely negative experience, I believe.