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Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by tus666 on Saturday April 09, 2022 @09:55PM (#30973817)
> A week of boba, crypto

What has crypto got to do with game development?

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by s-lambert on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:15PM (#30973906)
Crypto scam artists are always trying to stick their greedy fingers into everything, of course crypto is trying to invade video games too.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by conorcleary on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:24PM (#30973940)
Oh, real innovative comment in this day and age. Scams exist throughout history, at least crypto's goal is authenticity and transparency.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by s-lambert on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:41PM (#30974027)
There's nothing wrong with crypto on its own but crypto in video games is 100% a total scam. There are no realistic use cases for it other than tricking people out of their money.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by 0des on Sunday April 10, 2022 @07:19AM (#30976113)
It would be applicable for in game currency and in game assets. What comes to mind is a game like CS:Go. Tournament prizes paid in currency, in game items like weapon skins and knives as NFT. I'm not likely to use it as I don't play games, but it is easy to see the application for it. (Unless biases preclude that)
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by s-lambert on Sunday April 10, 2022 @09:28AM (#30976777)
You technically could do that but there's no real advantage to it, having an external store for a game's data isn't useful; a database is a better fit in all use cases. A game's economy doesn't exist without the game's balance and the same goes for items within that game. Trying to make some pie-in-the-sky "+4 str +4 stam leather belt" NFT is just nonsense.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by 0des on Sunday April 10, 2022 @11:53AM (#30978244)
I didn't say it was essential, I was filling in the details that the parent post was not able to understand. I do not play games, and I do not believe either of the two necessitates the other, I just have a knack for understanding simple concepts.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by pewpew2020 on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:06AM (#30975029)
Crypto is a solution looking for a problem to solve. It is like a parasite, which will latch onto any existing tech and enable scams on the same.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by ycombinete on Sunday April 10, 2022 @01:31AM (#30974687)
Gamers have already been groomed into a neat little group of gamblers by loot boxes etc. crypto makes sense.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hajhatten on Sunday April 10, 2022 @02:37AM (#30974920)
Not really sure if you're joking here or not.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by vmception on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:59AM (#30975225)
If you hang out in the NFT communities it is a lot of gamers who have the same behaviors co-opted for revenue.

People that self-identify as gamers are just a gatekeeping irrelevant subsection of the gaming market. They protested “don't you all have phones” while the actual company accurately knew they were making revenue from mobile users who would practically never be at the gaming conference or see the memes. Lootboxes are in, microtransactions are in, presales are in…. you really think all this protesting over NFT’s is going to make them … not in? They’re the same things, an extension of the same trends.

(If you haven't seen these parts of the NFT market yet and have a different conception of NFTs, the above parts have been the biggest parts of the NFT space for the last year)

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hajhatten on Monday April 11, 2022 @02:46AM (#30985455)
Just look at how the recent news in how big gaming publishers have announced large NFT / Crypto projects. The latest one being Ubisoft.

The reactions from the broader gaming community has been nothing but pure hatred.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by somenameforme on Sunday April 10, 2022 @04:38AM (#30975368)
Think about crypto in terms of what it fundamentally is: a decentralized append-only ledger with validation. And so think of anything relying remote storage, but without the need of centralization. There are two big general benefits:

1) Games can have online features without having to rely on centralized servers. It's an increasing shame that many games which have rich online options end up becoming crippled, if not killed, once the servers inevitably are taken offline. "Crypto" can solve this problem in some cases by being able to decentralize certain types of online features.

2) The decentralization aspect can enable various features to be used independent of a single game. Of course the same is also true of a single server but then you're in an even worse scenario with the servers going offline issue where a single server going down could end up killing multiple dependent titles. As well, with a decentralized solution, competing companies that may not want to depend on one another but might want to share in-game content could do so.

Dragon's Dogma, which was full of relatively innovative features, has at least 2 great use case scenarios. In the game players can use your character as an NPC ally within their game, a 'pawn'. With crypto you could create a decentralized cache of these pawns with the usual benefits: they can theoretically be used in games besides just DD, the pawn system keeps working long after Capcom kills the servers.

Another example was the final optional boss. No individual player can kill it, instead it has a shared hp pool that players chip away at until it dies and each player that contributed is then rewarded. Again a perfect example of something that could be done in a decentralized way that has some possibility of even doing things like having the same boss in multiple games, and of course also working even once the servers are taken offline.

Basically it's just another tool that you can do neat things with.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hunterb123 on Sunday April 10, 2022 @01:39AM (#30974706)
I'd be hard pressed to find something that fits better.

PayPal and Stripe do not allow virtual currencies due to them being high risk of chargebacks / credit card fraud.

Crypto is sometimes the only way to accept payment for virtual currencies / ingame items.

It's nice for the developers as chargebacks are very common in the industry and expensive.

Generally you get a bonus % when you pay in crypto because of this.

You could even do away with the redundant virtual currency and embed a crypto currency directly into your game, linking your games natural economy that forms to your coin value.

A game like an MMO usually get's a natural economy driven by supply and demand. Depending on how long it takes to farm gold, how rare the item is, etc.

Using a crypto coin in your game would visualize that value and allow your players to earn it in game and exchange it for its value in Bitcoin for example.

Items would be NFTs, the rarity and attributes of the item is already there, just make a token for it. When players trade items the NFT is transferred from one character (wallet) to another. The value of the item/NFT is what people assign to it.

Items and virtual currencies are just NFTs and tokens that aren't on the blockchain. By moving them to a blockchain you allow them to be exchanged.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by DonHopkins on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:46AM (#30975181)
>Using a crypto coin in your game would visualize that value and allow your players to earn it in game and exchange it for its value in Bitcoin for example.

So why use crypto, when games already use fonts, and numeric digits, commas, and dollar signs, and string formatting functions, and binary to decimal conversion routines, and text rendering libraries, all existing technologies for visualizing value?

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hunterb123 on Sunday April 10, 2022 @04:16AM (#30975289)
You misunderstood and took the statement too literally.

Let's say you have an MMO and players are selling gold for $5 per 10k. The people selling the gold are essentially creating an exchange of a virtual currency for fiat currency.

Crypto cuts that middleman out and allows everyone to exchange to and from the gold with other coins.

The visualization is instead of seeing 3rd party gold sellers giving an estimate of how much your gold is worth, your coin is the direct value.

Did that clear things up?

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by ohgodplsno on Sunday April 10, 2022 @10:11AM (#30977040)
Real Money Trading is banned by pretty much all MMOs and games, save some reaaaaally specific exceptions (EVE Online, for example).
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hunterb123 on Sunday April 10, 2022 @11:28AM (#30977903)
I'm not talking about directly ingame. People sell their accounts, items, and gold to others frequently.

You either buy the whole account or you buy it and then they send you the gold/item ingame.

There's a lot of communities, forums, and even businesses that revolve around it. It's a huge market.

Many games it's not technically banned, just not supported due to payment processors not allowing it.

Some games it may be against the rules, but it's hard to enforce.

https://www.g2g.com/

https://mmoauctions.com/

https://www.mmogah.com/

https://www.mmobux.com/

https://odealo.com/

There's hundreds of sites like that, some for niche games, some more general.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by DonHopkins on Sunday April 10, 2022 @04:24AM (#30975315)
Sorry, I forgot to mention databases.

So why use crypto instead?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/02/26/valves-gab...

>Valve's Gabe Newell Takes A Flamethrower To The Metaverse And NFTs

[...]

>"The things that were being done were super sketchy. And there was some illegal shit that was going on behind the scenes, and you're just like, yeah, this is bad. Blockchains as a technology are a great technology, that the ways in which has been utilized are currently are all pretty sketchy. And you sort of want to stay away from that…. The people who are currently active in that space are not usually good actors."

>"There's a bunch of get rich quick schemes around metaverse. Most of the people who are talking about metaverse have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And they've apparently never played an MMO. They're like, 'Oh, you'll have this customizable avatar.' And it's like, well... go into La Noscea in Final Fantasy 14 and tell me that this isn't a solved problem from a decade ago, not some fabulous thing that you're, you know, inventing."

>Here, Newell is saying plainly what many in the gaming community have been thinking when it comes to the “metaverse” presented as a bunch of blockchain-based Second Life knockoffs that are selling virtual real-estate to stupid business brands for millions. Meanwhile, actual metaverses, immersive video games, have been around for decades and already do all the things and much, much more than these newcomers.

>Very few people in this space will speak this frankly about the current gold rush situation when it comes to the blockchain, NFTs and the metaverse, but it’s great to hear from industry icon Gabe here to set the record straight.

[...]

Edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linden_Dollar

Gabe's point stands that the web3 kids have no fucking clue about what came before and has already been around for decades, or what any actual game developer or player would want to do with a game.

It is not economically practical or even technically possible to deliver on most of the empty starry-eyed promises being slung around by NFT shills. They're primarily scammers pushing get-rich-quick pyramid schemes and pump-and-dump rug-pulls, not experienced game developers or designers or economists.

pewpew hit the nail on the head:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30975029

>Crypto is a solution looking for a problem to solve. It is like a parasite, which will latch onto any existing tech and enable scams on the same.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hunterb123 on Sunday April 10, 2022 @04:29AM (#30975332)
You are using a database to sync addresses with players and other game related things.

But the balances and asset ownership is stored in a blockchain so you can exchange it with other crypto currencies.

That means you could farm gold ingame, exchange with bitcoin, then go to a bitcoin atm and get cash or vice-versa.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by bnchrch on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:13PM (#30973890)
Pretty natural. A lot of games already have to think about economics (e.g. wow). Now with crypto you can have an in game economy that can extended beyond your game making your users real money and incentivizing adoption.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by jandrese on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:01PM (#30974123)
...by gold farmers. You missed a bit at the end of the last line.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by DonHopkins on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:41AM (#30975159)
>incentivizing adoption

You mean promising that some day other people will pay you for playing an un-fun game instead of actually making a fun playable game in the first place.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by hunterb123 on Sunday April 10, 2022 @04:26AM (#30975323)
So if it was a fun game (subjective) you would have no issue?

It's a benefit for players to be able to earn coins ingame and exchange them with other currencies.

The current status quo is you can only buy virtual currency in games, not sell them.

Crypto in game gives more power to users.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by justinhj on Sunday April 10, 2022 @12:49AM (#30974554)
This is something that nobody in the industry wants so it will likely never happen
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by rdtwo on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:15PM (#30973903)
Crypto allows you to easily print in game assets and sell then for cash equivalent tokens
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by woodruffw on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:38PM (#30974010)
Does anybody seriously believe that creating and selling game assets wasn't previously possible and easy? My understanding is that it's been Valve's bread and butter for decades.

(I've heard that NFTs will make assets "transferable" between games, which I also understand to be currently possible when the games cooperate. I've yet to receive an explanation for how NFTs solve the NxM "graph" problem of sharing an asset across random games that don't share the same engine, network protocols, or basic asset formats.)

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by astrange on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:04PM (#30974136)
> I've heard that NFTs will make assets "transferable" between games, which I also understand to be currently possible when the games cooperate.

Of course, it still doesn't work when you lose the license to the asset.

https://kotaku.com/f1-formula-1-one-delta-time-nft-crypto-cu...

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by vmception on Sunday April 10, 2022 @04:02AM (#30975239)
Nobody building in the NFT space believes that.

Just roll with it, start referring to any random online world as a metaverse (or better yet, the singular metaverse) and move on. Its not about solutions its about capital, the technology comes with some interesting things. I dont view that as controversial. If people want to spend their money on that, sell that.

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by bombcar on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:22PM (#30973929)
Too bad Team Fortress 2 was before the era of Crypto, they could have made tons of money selling hats or something.
Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by astrange on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:02PM (#30974128)
Mr. patio11's explainer on mobile game accounting makes me doubtful it actually helps at all if you ever want to recognize revenue.

https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/accounting-for-saas-and-sw...

Re:What Happens When Twelve Thousand Game Developers Converge? by flohofwoe on Sunday April 10, 2022 @07:21AM (#30976122)
NFT scams, basically.