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Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by version_five on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:21AM (#30945636)
Why? This isn't Twitter, piling on a company doesn't add much to the discussion, it just lets people focus their outrage better
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by kyleblarson on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:39AM (#30945953)
I would like to know if a company is willing to waste thousands of dollars (interviewers' time, hiring manager's time, hiring committee's time, not to mention the candidate's time) knowing full well that they will not commit to terms (at least verbally) agreed upon upfront. That is a clear sign of a dysfunctional organization.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by alawrence on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:41AM (#30945996)
It'd be really valuable for me, personally. I suspect I know the company (Google) as I'd seen a Glassdoor review mentioning the same thing. It'd be really nice to know if the sample size is > 1 as I'm considering going through the application process myself and this would suck.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by jdhn on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:26AM (#30945712)
Because companies going back on their word during the hiring process is a bad thing. It's a bait and switch.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:45AM (#30946076)
This has happened to a number of folks that I have known over the years, and long predates remote work.

I have known many people that have picked up and moved across the country for "the dream job," only to return, a couple of months later, tail between their legs, because the job turned out to be unsuitable in any of a dozen different ways (usually, it was because the duties did not match what they were told, but I know of at least one case, where the pay was drastically reduced, or they were hired as a contractor, even though they were told it was a salaried employee of the corporation).

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by krisoft on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:51AM (#30946167)
Sounds like a bunch of excellent reasons why such companies should be named.

Companies are huge and they can hurt many people at scale. Individuals are small, relatively powerless and easy to manipulate. Especially if they don't organise themselves. Spreading information is the first step of getting organised.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:54AM (#30946206)
I agree, but it's also a good way to get "blackballed" in today's tech industry.

I would not encourage people early-to-mid-career, to do this.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by michaelt on Thursday April 07, 2022 @12:10PM (#30946445)
I'm sceptical as to whether you can actually get blackballed, unless your misdeeds achieve a Hans Reiser level of publicity.

I've had recruiters claim that if I use the offer they got me to negotiate a raise from my current employer, they'll make sure I never work in this town again - and yet recruiters keep calling.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:08PM (#30947364)
I've seen it happen.

Maybe it's less prevalent than it has been in the past, but managers hate "troublemakers," even if the "troublemakers" are 100% correct.

Also, this is a FAANG company. Get problems there, it's likely to metastasize. It would be another thing, if it were BillyBob's WebApp Emporium.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by no-s on Thursday April 07, 2022 @12:46PM (#30947023)
>unless your misdeeds achieve a Hans Reiser level of publicity.

Really. I know people with felony convictions for serious crimes who got back into the industry they offended against. It turns out that background check firms are only reliable when the applicant has no criminal background, heheh.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by datavirtue on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:30PM (#30949277)
Ahh...not hot dog.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by 015a on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:22AM (#30945650)
I'm not seeing why that would be a problem.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by hitpointdrew on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:32AM (#30945828)
In what context is focusing ones outrage at all useful, ever? This is just reinforcing destruction, promoting group identity, enabling a mob mentality, and sometimes promotes violence.

Honest critique is one thing, mob mentality outrage is not an honest critique.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by aerovistae on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:37AM (#30945921)
Mob mentality outrage is one of the few things that produces effective change.

Would you encourage the same policy of not naming the the accused parties with the #meToo movement? Because it's not productive or worthwhile to focus on a few individuals? And where would that movement have gotten if none of the parties involved had ever been named?

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by MisterBastahrd on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:35AM (#30945893)
You can't figure out why, in a community full of developers, that it might be useful to know which employers are lying about remote work?
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by hitpointdrew on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:11PM (#30950379)
That wasn't my point. I think that would be part of an honest critique.

The other commenter basically said focusing outrage was not problematic. I don't have any issue with honesty and transparency around hiring practices. However, I do think the appropriate place to do something like that would be on a site like glassdoor, and not a platform like twitter. I think as a country we have way more than enough "outrage" at the moment, I don't see any benefit to adding fuel to fire and communicating it a way that is likely going stir up hashtag vomit.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by aaomidi on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:34AM (#30945873)
The company is doing what would be illegal in most places, and definitely immoral here.

They deserve the outrage and the outrage is the only thing that's gonna fix this.

Also to answer your question. Literally every single positive change in this country has come out of focused outrage.

Civil rights movement LGBT rights Women's rights The basic amount of worker and consumer rights.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by version_five on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:52AM (#30946172)
So we've escalated from "top paying tech company decided I can't work remote" to the civil rights movement... this thread is an interesting study in internet discourse
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by artificialLimbs on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:35AM (#30945892)
Individuals can choose to do the actions you describe and that needs to be dealt with at an individual level.

What is being discussed is responsibility for actions.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by salawat on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:51AM (#30946163)
Society runs on example making, sadly. For all the good or ill that entails.

Someone deserves to be named and shamed, with the caveat of, there must be an agreement to actually accept the results of further digging.

If the recruiter said yes to a remote position that wasn't, the fault is rightly on the recruiter. If the recruiter was told remote was fine only for eventual reneg when ink was being put to paper... That is absolutely a reputation hit the client of said recruiter needs to take.

Fixing a fault requires identification, localization & characterization, and remediation.

This fault has been identified, but not localized and characterized.

Ergo, if remediation is the goal, naming and shaming absolutely needs to happen.

And everyone involved, up to the company execs making the decision themselves should understand the importance of this dynamic unless they've all been playing games to get to where they are, in which case, the callout is doubly needed.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by noasaservice on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:47PM (#30947940)
As much as it pains me to say it... In my experiences if the recruiter email has an Indian name, it's going to be an uttar shitshow.

They will lie to you, blatantly.

They'll use non-standard English that will have tons of ambiguities and brokenness. I believe this is a benefit to them, to provide ambiguity.

The remote/hybrid/in-person status is whatever you ask, and will be updated to the real answer when talking to the client.

The job will flip/flop from to w2 and c2c by whatever you seem to express.

Pay is whatever they think you will like.

There's "benefits" until it flips to contract with no benefits.

Now, that's not to say that a standard American recruiter is somehow good. They're also pretty sketch as well. But so far, in 2y of looking for a new job, 100% of the Indian recruiters have not "did the needful" for me.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by _jal on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:39AM (#30945961)
So that other people don't waste their time on that company, of course.

Why do you believe the company should be able to keep bad behavior secret?

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by brezelgoring on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:30AM (#30945797)
It lets you know not to trust the recruiter, at least, I know I'd like to know who did that.

Credibility is paramount on these things, and a recruiter doing this is wasting people's time and money.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by nullc on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:25AM (#30945691)
Because it helps people make better decisions about where they apply and how far they get before getting commitments like remote working in writing!
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by lbriner on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:27AM (#30945728)
The Recruiter could have left, they could have been told it was Remote and the company changed their minds later, could have been a simple mistake. Why burn a company without knowing the facts?
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by nopenopenopeno on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:29AM (#30945781)
The company and only the company could have prevented it, but they didn’t.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by cheeze on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:40AM (#30945968)
Yep. I don't care what the reasoning behind the scenes is. I care that a candidate got bamboozled.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by spicybright on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:46AM (#30946097)
OP dodged a bullet frankly, but it really sucks when most big companies all shoot at you.

We don't even need to promote much discussion on it TBH. If OP is to be believed, the company blatantly lied to OP and wasted a large chunk of his time.

Just like in anything else in life, if someone is not held to the consequences of their actions, they'll keep doing it.

It's frankly pathetic if this remains the norm for our profession.

It's not like most of us applicants go in, blatantly lie, and waste the companies time. We, and every other worked applying to any job, should at least be treated the same as a bare minimum.

Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by emteycz on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:29AM (#30945771)
It adds the most important thing to the discussion: Which company is it, so we - the other people working in the same field, applying for the same jobs - can avoid it.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by notreallyserio on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:34AM (#30945861)
And without it the post is pointless. Recruiters lie. Yes. Sales people lie all the time. It's not news.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by jupp0r on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:39AM (#30945959)
It might even be read by employees of that very company that are in a position to improve things.
Re:Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions by decebalus1 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:54AM (#30946203)
> it just lets people focus their outrage better

Sounds like a 'win' to me.