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Re:The end of the nice GTK button by grishka on Friday March 25, 2022 @01:14AM (#30798848)
Borderless buttons to have the right to exist, but you should be very careful with their use. For example, take this UI I made recently: https://mastodon.social/@grishka/107998100334356147, 2nd screenshot. The button to decline invitation looks like a link (same color) and it's next to a real button. No one would ever get confused by this, it's pretty clear it's clickable.

But a black word in a larger font among black text would definitely NOT be recognized as a button by most people. Context matters a lot.

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by spoils19 on Friday March 25, 2022 @02:35AM (#30799255)
I disagree. I had to sit and think for a few minutes as it was extremely unintuitive - my first impressions were that I couldn't decline the invitation at all, and the button was disabled or missing for some reason (I've seen some bad CSS in my career so it no longer surprises me when it goes missing).
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by sph on Friday March 25, 2022 @06:24AM (#30800397)
The button and link next to each other is a common pattern that has been used for decades at this point. It's core to Google's material design.

I agree that it might not be ideal, but when it is used literally everywhere I do not believe it's that hard to read.

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by amatecha on Friday March 25, 2022 @01:39PM (#30805066)
Decades? Any examples of this? Material Design has only been around since 2014, so that's not really a good example to cite.
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by zestyping on Friday March 25, 2022 @02:53AM (#30799338)
It does not look like a button. It's just a label floating around.

When designing user interfaces, use the mantra: "Don't make me think!" Don't make the user think about whether something is a button or not. Don't make them have to infer that the label is in fact a button due to context.

Just make it look like a button!

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by ShroudedNight on Friday March 25, 2022 @02:59AM (#30799359)
I am but an ignorant user, but making you think to do complete one action but not another seems to be a significant part of the point. I find it deeply coercive, and hope to see the other side of this trend sooner rather than later.
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by silon42 on Friday March 25, 2022 @08:06AM (#30801113)
Yeah... personally I detest anything flat or rounded... give me square pixel sharp corners any-day... and not just for buttons.
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by ShroudedNight on Friday March 25, 2022 @02:56AM (#30799346)
Moving the goalposts, but the decline button in your example looks significantly harder to engage than the join button, and engaging with it would cause at least a twinge of anxiety in anticipation of having to essentially coerce the interface to accept that I do not wish to travel the gilded path.

It frustrates me that this sort of design has become not just acceptable but celebrated as 'correct', and I long for the days when interfaces did their best to seek my enthusiastic consent to my chosen course of action.

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by amatecha on Friday March 25, 2022 @03:04AM (#30799388)
It's not very clear to me it's clickable.. Is it an action, or a link to a different page/view? If it's an action (accept/decline invite), make it a button. If it's navigation, make it a text link. You are giving totally disparate cues to the user when the actions taken upon clicking are of the exact same type.

My initial reaction to a piece of text directly next to a button is "why is there random unrelated text there?" and then the sensation of anger as I come to the realization someone consciously decided to make me think about the UI more than I needed to. It's purely a distraction.

Just make it look like a button. There is literally zero reason not to, and you can eliminate the chance of confusion. Why increase the possibility of uncertainty at all? What value does that provide to anyone?

Every UI or design element that causes me to think about it wastes precious moments I could have been thinking about something I actually cared about, for example the actual task I was in the middle of. On top of that, when you use unconventional design, even after someone learns the seemingly-arbitrary, specific quirks of the design you've used, you will cause them to think about it all again later when you redesign the application.

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by gsinclair on Friday March 25, 2022 @04:39AM (#30799811)
Literally zero reason not to? I think it’s emphasising the “default” action quite nicely, and de-emphasising the other action quite appropriately.

“Decline invitation” needs to be something you can do, of course, but it will be used < 1% of the time, I imagine.

I find that having buttons side by side forces me to think in a mildly unpleasant way, like I have to read two thinks more carefully because there is more onus on me to decide which is the typical action.

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by amatecha on Friday March 25, 2022 @01:31PM (#30804968)
No, that's still not a reason to conceal the behaviour/purpose of the UI element.

If you want to emphasize/de-emphasize a UI element, you can do something like was established on most GUIs 30+ years ago: make the default/safest option have a thicker border, and the secondary/de-emphasized option have a thin border. Early examples (1985 and 1991 respectively):

https://guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/settings/appearance/wi...

https://guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/features/search...

Note how immediately-obvious it is which action is the "typical". You don't even have to read the text, you could even squint your eyes or glance from a great distance and still understand which button is the one you probably want.

UI design involves trust, especially for software where people are trying to actually get something done. Making unconventional designs erodes your users' trust. Have respect for them and what you can reasonably expect them to "know" arriving at your software, and they will have an easier time and love you for it. As we can see, these conventions have existed for decades, and deviating from them warrants a very compelling reason, not just "cuz it looks neat".

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by pessimizer on Friday March 25, 2022 @12:46PM (#30804394)
> I think it’s emphasising the “default” action quite nicely, and de-emphasising the other action quite appropriately.

What's the reason that the designer wants to nudge me to accept invitations again? I missed it.

Also, what's the difference between that and a dark pattern?

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by michaelmrose on Friday March 25, 2022 @01:44PM (#30805122)
The button to decline doesn't add an entity. There are already two options to consider whether to accept or decline. Making the external state and internal state match avoids confusion.
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by swiftcoder on Friday March 25, 2022 @02:50AM (#30799321)
> No one would ever get confused by this, it's pretty clear it's clickable.

I don't know how you can reach that conclusion, because we only recognise it because of how many times we've been fed this exact pattern over and over again in flat UIs (and failed to realise it was clickable the first N times)

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by AlanYx on Friday March 25, 2022 @10:05AM (#30802304)
>No one would ever get confused by this, it's pretty clear it's clickable.

It's pretty clear that it's clickable, but I definitely wouldn't think it's a button. My best guess would be that it's a navigation element, and that clicking on it brings you to some other page where a decline invitation button might be found, or where you have to fill out some form to explain why you're declining.

Part of it is because it looks exactly the same as "Test User", and presumably that isn't a button... I imagine that is a navigation element. But part of it is also because quite a few recent Microsoft corporate products (Sharepoint, Dynamics, etc.) seem to use the idiom you're trying to use for signaling that something isn't a button.

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by totalkrill on Friday March 25, 2022 @09:34AM (#30801962)
Like so many other pointed out, this is wrong, I got confused, it looks like a link, would that get me to some kind of unsubscribe page? is it phising?

buttons should be actions, links should be directions,

directions would take me somewhere, actions would has an effect and consequence. That you think this is okay, and assume no-one would ever be confused by this. Is clearly an issue in the industry at large

Re:The end of the nice GTK button by zozbot234 on Friday March 25, 2022 @09:51AM (#30802159)
Perhaps online, but links in a GUI dialog box are often actions too.
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by zozbot234 on Friday March 25, 2022 @03:30AM (#30799527)
That's an action link, not a button. In a UI context it would be rendered in a different color and underlined, to highlight it being an active element rather than a simple label.
Re:The end of the nice GTK button by happymellon on Friday March 25, 2022 @01:57AM (#30799084)
It's bold, so that helps. I assume you are able to click the group name and test user since they are also bold?

I would still prefer a border around the button as I'm not sure what you gain by removing it, but at least you provide hints.