News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by PragmaticPulp on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @08:57PM (#30003317)
This article is heavy on the victim-blaming. Are we really supposed to shift some of our blame to the company suffering the thefts?

When the LA Prosecutor has made it clear that they aren't prosecuting the thieves, it almost doesn't matter how many or how few patrol officers Union Pacific has. If there are no consequences, catching someone in the middle of a theft is only a minor delay and inconvenience.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by mc32 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:52PM (#30004350)
To add to that UP and LAPD have arrested perps and re-arrested the same perps, but the DA/Prosecutor aren't holding water. They aren't following through.

In any event, this outlet was likely on the "defund the police" bandwagon, and now, they have the gall to say, oh, it's because you reduced policing (despite the fact that the DA is not doing their job making the argument moot.)

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by wolverine876 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:43PM (#30003765)
> This article is heavy on the victim-blaming.

Victim-blaming is about blaming the vulnerable and powerless. Union Pacific might be 'victims' of crime, but they are not vulnerable and powerless. As one dramatic example, we wouldn't be talking about this issue if it was a vulnerable, powerless individual; they have the power to get their point of view into the public eye.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by n_plus_1 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:53PM (#30003863)
Victim-blaming is about blaming the victim. It has no other qualifiers attached. Having it mean anything else runs counter to the composition of this composite term.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by bee_rider on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @11:09PM (#30004481)
Lots of popular phrases have a meaning that is different from strictly combining the literal definition of their constituent parts. In fact I think this the case for most popular phrases. If not, they wouldn't be phrases, just words.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Lammy on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @11:28PM (#30004647)
"Unite humanity with a living new language."
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by mlindner on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:50PM (#30003832)
> Victim-blaming is about blaming the vulnerable and powerless.

Oh please. We're attempting to redefine victims based on power theory just like we tried to redefine racism based on power theory? Please don't do this.

It entirely isn't a factor whether you have power or not when determining a victim. (Or are we going to say men can't be raped because they could have resisted?)

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by wolverine876 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:15PM (#30004029)
It's not redefining it, and I don't know what "power theory" is nor have I heard of it. Those are the definitions. Discrimination means nothing without the power to make it consequential. Protected classes in law have always been defined around power, as have been laws protecting minorities and women.

There's no reason to think a sexually assaulted male is in a position of power.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by mlindner on Friday January 21, 2022 @05:52AM (#30021837)
Protected classes being defined around power is a brand new concept and not something that is used in law. We are equal under the law.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by AniseAbyss on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:32PM (#30004186)
Some of the stuff that was stolen was paid for by hard working law abiding Americans. This wasn't Robin Hood mugging the sheriff. Insurance premiums will go up and guess who's footing the bill...
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by wolverine876 on Thursday January 20, 2022 @06:50PM (#30017144)
> Some of the stuff that was stolen was paid for by hard working law abiding Americans.

A stirring description of this mythical group. If you pay Amazon for something and it's stolen in transit, Amazon still owes it to you. You don't lose anything.

> Insurance premiums will go up and guess who's footing the bill...

UP will foot the bill.

Regardless, we should work to reduce crime, including against UP. But jailing innocent people because they are poor or minorities is not a solution, and hasn't worked in the past. Do you want to return to that?

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by vkou on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:01PM (#30003362)
Depends on whether it took reasonable precautions. If you left a pile of gold bars in an unlocked shed at your vacation property, that you visit three times a year, I can be sympathetic to you if someone steals them, but I'm not quite so sympathetic that I'm ready to volunteer my taxes to fund 24/7 security for your shed.

I'm not an expert on what's reasonable when it comes to railway security (and neither are you), but from my layman's take on it, firing 85% of their security, and observing a 160% increase in theft seems like a "Union Pacific problem", not a "me problem".

They do seem to have a financial incentive, to the tune of 52 salaries to try to turn it into a "me problem."

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by kyrra on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:44PM (#30003771)
You do realize that the thieves are using bolt cutters and breaking into a containers. Some container owners are now welding their containers closed to prevent contents from being stolen.

Union Pacific is also turning information over and helping get people arrested, but they're back on the street within 24 hours.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by mlindner on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:00PM (#30003916)
Yes I agree. This sets a dangerous precedent saying basically the police won't enforce laws.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Lammy on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:01PM (#30003373)
Yes, capital is complicit in building a society that allows people to suffer to the point that they need to steal to survive. Artificial scarcity is artificial: https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/economic-education/wi...
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by 8f2ab37a-ed6c on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:39PM (#30003731)
People kept making that point in SF about the sub-$900 CVS shoplifting rampage until they found out that the whole thing was run by organized large-scale crime rings. Those fine folks in charge of operations are not very likely to be suffering of much of anything, but you could argue that they are taking advantage of the homeless crisis to recruit foot soldiers for their enterprise.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Lammy on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:02PM (#30003933)
> but you could argue that they are taking advantage of the homeless crisis to recruit foot soldiers for their enterprise.

https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bont... "Over the course of the investigation, $1,874,633.65 was seized from the defendants’ various bank accounts."

Yeah, if a two-million-dollar crime organization is supposed to be some "gotcha" then let's compare their possible ratio of crime-boss versus street-thug pay to the ratio of Silicon-Valley-engineer TC versus Tech-CEO TC. Do yours first :D

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by techdragon on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:17PM (#30004060)
Not really sure in this case, but it’s worth remembering that just as people organise into groups and hierarchies for other things like business and politics, so too do they organise for crime.

While organised crime is demonstrably capable of engineering situations beneficial to their ongoing criminal endeavours… it’s important to remember that the organised crime rings involvement may just be an emergent property of crime being allowed to happen enough that the people involved in it begin to organise.

Of course the situation may devolve from that point but the organising force coming from within before being co-opted is still reflecting a different situation than one where the whole endeavour was started and run by some kind of gang/kingpin/mafia to begin with.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Manuel_D on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:05PM (#30003421)
There's plenty of shortages caused not by capital, but by government. Like restrictive zoning and price controls suppressing housing construction. I fail to see how UP railroad is complicit in the scarcity that may be driving some to steal from trains.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Lammy on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:12PM (#30003496)
> not by capital, but by government

These are the same thing though. The former is the incentive mechanism to achieve the designs of the latter. It's just filtered through enough layers like Vanguard and Berkshire and friends that people don't notice. Hands up if you've worked somewhere funded by In-Q-Tel, for example (I have!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by bagacrap on Thursday January 20, 2022 @12:06AM (#30004905)
there's a large class of people who have checked out of society and live in encampments while stealing to get by. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that this is because of capital misallocation; after all, in SF they allocate ridiculous sums to housing transients (far more than I spend on my own housing on a per capita basis) and the problem persists. In LA the budget is $1B annually.

If you haven't noticed, the median transient is a drug addict (mostly meth/opiates) and the typical drug addict chooses not to participate in society, inasmuch as you can accept that they have any agency at all. Some may think they are being compassionate with this victim-coddling but this only makes sense if you take the view that the victim-criminals enjoy their situation, since the coddling isn't elevating any of them out of poverty.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Lammy on Thursday January 20, 2022 @12:34AM (#30005117)
I just straight-up don't believe anybody would willingly be a homeless addict if they felt they had any achievable path toward a fulfilling life. Drugs are a coping method (Source: have done drugs). Of course some people will choose not to participate in a society they feel has abandoned them. Everyone has a different breaking point and the world shouldn't be set up so people fail and suffer by default unless they "'earn' a living". That's such a fucked-up concept and we even have a normalized phrase for it.

Even CDC readily admits this: https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/11778/cdc_11778_DS1.pdf

"Males and females have reported using methamphetamine for increased energy and productivity, its low cost, self-medication for depression or attention deficits, and the euphoric high"

"Males have reported using methamphetamine […] increased energy to work multiple jobs"

To me it feels like your comment is the one taking "the view that the victim-criminals enjoy their situation" if you think people choose to drop out of society even when there are bootstraps by which they could pull themselves up v(._. )v

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by marcellus23 on Thursday January 20, 2022 @07:10AM (#30007879)
Reading HN comments on stories like this can be so disheartening. So many people seem to buy into the lies about criminality that created the situation we’re in now. Just wanted to say I agree with everything you’re saying in this thread, and thanks for saying it.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by bagacrap on Saturday January 22, 2022 @12:18PM (#30038626)
Of course there are bootstraps available. Look around you on this forum; it's full of hard working, self taught, highly motivated and successful individuals working in an industry that has some of the lowest barriers to entry imaginable.

I think when choosing between "unhoused, with access to drugs" and "housed but no access to drugs", many (not most, and not you!) choose the former. It's empirically true: most shelters don't allow drug use and so addicts turn them down in favor of camping.

You are projecting your own relative values if you think no one would ever make this choice. You are also over-weighting your own experience when you say that all drugs are a coping mechanism for all people all the time. Different drugs affect the same person differently; the same drug affects different people differently. Caffeine, Adderall, LSD, coke can all be productivity enhancers and are on average less destructive than meth. With all these tools at one's disposal, and plenty of precedent for successful straightedge approaches to life, suggesting that the meth problem is a result of people earnestly trying to survive the rat race is poorly supported by logic.

I can't even guess what you think the alternative to "earning a living" should be. The default should be to provide unlimited benefits for those who have no interest in contributing to society? Great, that's what we effectively are doing, so you must believe the status quo is ideal. But if you believe these people aren't living their best lives, then maybe consider that the current approach (extreme coddling) isn't helping them.

Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by mlindner on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:58PM (#30003902)
The scarcity is real right now because of supply chain issues and people robbing trains doesn't help. And no, these people aren't "stealing to survive" they're stealing because they can. Crime rates shot up all over the country wherever laws were slackened or police forces torn down.
Re:Before wave of train thefts, Union Pacific laid off some ... by Lammy on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:52PM (#30004349)
> The scarcity is real right now because of supply chain issues

IMO regulations that allow such a fragile system still make it artificial, just minus all accountability. Supply chains can't be an "act of god" (in a tort sense) when it's a concept humans made up.