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Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by cmod on Thursday January 06, 2022 @07:14AM (#29822592)
My own experience in Kazakhstan a few years ago was amazing — kind, generous people. I had the most surreal (but standard) Russian Bath experience: sitting with a bunch of naked folks as they self-flog with branches in rooms so hot you needed wool caps to keep the top of your head from singeing. When I was getting dressed a huge guy next to me said something in Russian, I was certain I had committed some bath faux pas, but then he repeated in heavily accented English: "Those boots, suitable in winter?"

Almaty was surprisingly cosmopolitan, walkable, felt eminently livable.

Took the train to Baikonur. Walked on the launch pad, visited the old control rooms. [0]

The whole way: Kindness and gentleness were the two words that kept bouncing around my head. In the middle of nowhere folks were driving sensibly (as opposed to, say, in Morocco where I felt like every car ride was a dice roll). I saw two cars have an accident in Almaty — the drivers calmly stepped out, shook hands, and discussed the situation.

Nur-Sultan was, however, miserable — built for cars, human antagonistic, artificial layout, depressing architecture.

I'd love to get back to Almaty.

Hoping for swift and peaceful resolution on all this.

[0]: https://craigmod.com/ridgeline/036/

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by googamooga on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:54AM (#29823526)
Most probably the OP visited the left bank of River Ishim side of Nur-Sultan which is indeed quite dull and built for cars. OTOH the right bank, the historical city, is much better IMHO, especially the central part. I was born there in 1970 and visited it quite recently in 2019, nothing much have changed there, it is still very approachable by feet and cozy, with lots of great restaurants and shops.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by cmod on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:29PM (#29833479)
Most likely; the thrust of the trip was Baikonur bookended by Almaty and Nur-Sultan.

Typographically I found it interesting that the country was attempting to shift away from Cyrillic to a more romanized (??) written form; i.e., "Qazaqstan."

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by CodeGlitch on Thursday January 06, 2022 @07:47AM (#29822879)
There's a really interesting video blogger called "bald and bankrupt" on YouTube who visits all sorts of weird and wonderful locations in Russia and former Soviet Union States:

https://www.youtube.com/c/baldandbankrupt/featured

Doesn't look like he's been to Kazakhstan yet though...

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by 2-718-281-828 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @11:27AM (#29825621)
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by CodeGlitch on Thursday January 06, 2022 @11:47AM (#29825918)
Yikes, and here I was thinking he was only interested in taking about the former USSR. :(
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by SuperNinKenDo on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:22PM (#29833955)
Wow, thanks for sharing. Very disturbing stuff.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by CommanderData on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:08AM (#29823072)
Reading and watching about these places on YouTube (BaldAndBankrupt) and recently numerous videos about Pakistan, Afghanistan, India.

I can't help but feel modern Western society has lost and forgotten something within. It's hard to describe but easier described as nearest to changes in warmth and compassion.

It's only getting worse and these old places it seems ingrained.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by raxxorrax on Friday January 07, 2022 @04:09AM (#29836848)
Off topic, but another interesting and tragic story is about the Aral Sea between Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. I actually don't know in what state it is now, but it shows perils of modern agriculture and resulting environmental problems which hit the population severely. The issues often fly under the radar because it is said that people are used to environmental hardships, so a sea vanishing wasn't seen as something too catastrophic. I think there are efforts to restore the sea and that might be extremely important for the overall health of the population in the vicinity.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by NicoJuicy on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:27AM (#29823258)
It's never been that peaceful in the world. The thing that has changed is media reports from all over the world.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by nradov on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:19PM (#29828504)
The world is generally getting more peaceful. A smaller percentage of people are dying by violence than ever before.

https://stevenpinker.com/publications/better-angels-our-natu...

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:52PM (#29826992)
>It's never been that peaceful in the world.

The presence of peace, or the absence of war is indeed a big plus, but doesn't mean automatic happiness for everyone.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by deepsun on Friday January 07, 2022 @08:35AM (#29838886)
Happiness is an interesting concept. I currently think it's very relative to your neighbors or, to a lesser extent, to people you know about. In modern world information spreads much easier. Ignorance is really a bliss in terms of happiness.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by deepsun on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:12AM (#29823714)
It's getting better pretty much everywhere. We just didn't hear what was happening times ago.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by diskzero on Thursday January 06, 2022 @06:13PM (#29831980)
I spent a month in Kazakhstan in 2012. I am an American and speak and read decent Russian. I agree that the experience was amazing and agree with your opinions of Almaty and Nur-Sultan. I found the overall experience to be very similar to visiting other post-Soviet Central Asian countries.

Baikonur the city, not the cosmodrome, was an entirely different experience. Baikonur is essentially a Russian military outpost that continues to exist as a place for the personnel and families of Roscosmos and the various entities that exist to operate the cosmodrome, which is several kilometers away. You must pass through a military checkpoint to enter the city and military police patrol the city. Don't stay up late drinking in the central square! You will be helpfully escorted away by the militia.

If you talk to the local non-Russians living in Baikonur, they are not huge fans of the Russian presence. You can observe the youths swearing and yelling at the buses of Roscosmos personnel and tourists returning from launches. They would be glad to see the Russians leave, even though it would be a massive blow to the economy.

One of the first things the native Kazakhs did after the collapse of the Soviet Union was build a mosque right outside of the entrance of the city of Baikonur. It is quite nice and I visited it with no problem. Those who wish to attend mosque that live within city must pass through a checkpoint to leave the city and another to get in. There is no mosque allowed within the city, although there is a Russian Orthodox church, which I also visited with no problem.

The cosmodrome itself is an amazing place worthy of a huge essay, so I will save my observations for a topic relevant to that.

I am hopeful the Kazakh people can find a future free from Russian influence and the Russian-backed strongmen that have controlled the country in post-Soviet times. Other than Russian colonial outposts like Baikonur, the culture and religion of the people there are quite different that those of Russia.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by FullStackAda on Saturday January 08, 2022 @03:38AM (#29849836)
> I am hopeful the Kazakh people can find a future free from Russian influence and the Russian-backed strongmen that have controlled the country in post-Soviet times.

There are still at least a million of ethnic Russians living in the Northern and North-Eastern Kazakhstan who settled there starting from 18th century. What do you propose them to do?

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by labawi on Saturday January 08, 2022 @12:19PM (#29853744)
Strongmen should go to jail and the rest can go on with their lives?
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by thejackgoode on Thursday January 06, 2022 @07:35AM (#29822778)
Being Eastern European, I can attest to the fact that this kindness and generosity (poorly abstracted as being passionate about things) has a flip side, and you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by glofish on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:28AM (#29823897)
This is a really good point,

when an American (or other rich Westerner) shows up in remote area, they are treated like a king,

basically you are treated as people treat ridiculously good looking and popular people around them that they want to be around,

that generosity you feel is nothing more than being popular and center of attention

start living there, all of a sudden that generosity is not so obvious, families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the whole garden is trampled because someone is stealing a few of your tomatoes, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues, people have untrained dangerous dogs that are a menace to the whole community ...

etc

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by d0mine on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:36AM (#29824852)
It reminds me the old joke https://www.anekdot.ru/id/309796/
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:37AM (#29823993)
>start living there, all of a sudden that generosity is not so obvious, families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the garden is trampled, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues,

So basically all the same petty BS that you get in the urbanized inner suburbs HN raves about without the bickering being laundered through lawyers and local officials to give it a veneer of acceptability?

Humans gonna human.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by whimsicalism on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:12AM (#29824467)
Yeah, my Berkeley neighbor has been on my case for that bushel of corn for the last two decades
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by throwaway0a5e on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:31AM (#29824776)
I'm sure if you borrowed some power tool and half broke it he'd be more than happy to call the city on you every time you violate one of the million rules for the next few decades. Of course nobody is fighting over corn but there is no shortage of fairly obvious parallels.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by philistine on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:49PM (#29826939)
I come from a rural environment. Sometimes it was literally about corn. But yeah, most often it was about mechanical stuff.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by unethical_ban on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:55AM (#29824249)
You could reframe your point without it being an attack on "HN" as a unit, and without making yourself sound above it.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by BuckRogers on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:50AM (#29825063)
A lot of his examples though depend on his observations, as a 3rd party, such as the accident. That wouldn't have any dependency on him being the center of attention. His observation in Morrocco also without his involvement.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by janeroe on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:31AM (#29824781)
> families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the garden is trampled, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues

If this is supposed to be the description of Kazakhstan, I haven't seen a post with more bullshit in my life. Like "bushel of corn ... fifty years ago", "the garden is trampled", "save on trash collection fees", "people cut ahead of you in the queues" gee.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by glofish on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:38AM (#29824870)
My sentiment is not about Kazakhstan in particular,

It is about the rich westerner's naive gushing when visiting African, Eastern European, Central American remote villages etc

"Everybody is so nice and generous around here ... not like back home in the civilized world"

They confuse how people treat them in particular with what it is like living there.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by usrusr on Thursday January 06, 2022 @11:16AM (#29825448)
One possible explanation for the pattern of generous hospitality in poor countries I find quite interesting (I'm sure it's only one component of many in the motivational environment) is that hosting the traveler from afar is the closest thing they can do to traveling themselves.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by aerostable_slug on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:12PM (#29828368)
Note that generosity to travelers is a common virtue in many societies throughout history, and violating this can bring severe consequences if only in myth (e.g. a traveling stranger might actually be a god in disguise checking up on you).

And after all, next time it might be you looking for a bite to eat and a place out of the wind and rain for the night. There's not a lot of Holiday Inns on the steppe or in ancient Greece.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by philistine on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:48PM (#29826909)
They're tourists in an area where they're uncommon. Outside places where they are very numerous, people always treat tourists well. It's simple, really.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by patrec on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:23AM (#29823217)
> you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment.

How high is the risk, if you make an effort to behave well?

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by inglor_cz on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:33AM (#29823318)
A random traveller from afar is unlikely to be subject to the worst risk, which is something like sudden bout of sectarian or ethnic violence between neighbours.

As if people felt the need to compensate for their hospitality and generosity elsewhere.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by thejackgoode on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:28AM (#29823270)
Low, but it’s quite a skill. Referenced here “bald and bankrupt” is an expert in “behaving well”, I am still amazed by his skills to be honest
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by torginus on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:22AM (#29824627)
Other than the accusations that the other poster made (which I've heard as well), I wouldn't consider him a model expat. First, he essentially speaks Cave Russian (Morning! Taxi how much?) despite living there for decades.

The other more concerning thing, is this clueless chipper tourist act he does constantly - many times, I've seen him interview desperate, bitter, destitute people who lived in derelict former industrial centers of the USSR, telling stories of how their towns were the centers of industry, culture, activity - only for the factories to shut down, the opportunities disappear, the buildings turn to slums, and the only escape that remained was drinking.

And he just grills them question after question - and grins like a five year old at his first time at the zoo. It made me think something is very wrong with that man.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by kingofkyiv on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:38AM (#29823372)
That is only on camera. He has been kicked off almost every other platform except YouTube. Visa, Uber, PayPal among others all kicked him off. Off camera he has been exposed as a debased sexual predator. Anyone interested can find the whole drama exposing him by searching reddit, his name, and similar terms to what I discussed.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by solarhoma on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:02AM (#29824330)
I used to be a fan. Until as you described, I scratched the surface and found the posts he made. The rape allegations. It doesn’t take long to connect the dots that his trips to poor socioeconomic areas are not because they are interesting. But to find vulnerable women. And his naive audience is how he continues to pay for his predations.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by MathCodeLove on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:40AM (#29824037)
I'm not interested one way or another but if you're going to make claims this extreme the least you can do is provide a link to the evidence yourself. Let's leave making unsubstantiated, outrageous statements to the other social media platforms that do it best.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by solarhoma on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:06AM (#29824401)
These are just a few posts digging into his past. There are plenty more to research as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/internetdrama/comments/d4zo17/1_mil...

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/comments/judnlm...

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by lobocinza on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:42AM (#29824938)
Most of the URLs of that thread are broken including Archive.org.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by kingofkyiv on Friday January 07, 2022 @10:07AM (#29839940)
Thanks for posting the links.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by 2-718-281-828 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @11:27AM (#29825611)
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by nmfisher on Thursday January 06, 2022 @07:56AM (#29822952)
Can you elaborate?
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by thejackgoode on Thursday January 06, 2022 @08:11AM (#29823101)
For example, ex-nomadic and Caucasian “honor culture” is linked to necessity of trust in regions with predominant animal husbandry. If your cattle gets stolen before winter, you die of hunger. That’s why honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin — you can’t afford losing trust. Robert Sapolsky gave a lecture about it.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by Jon_Lowtek on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:33PM (#29828702)
While i can't make absolute statements of what he may or may not have said in every lecture he ever gave, i doubt Sapolsky would claim that honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin. In "Behave The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst" Sapolsky differentiates "honor killings" as inwards violence, whose victims are usually young women, from "retribution" against animal thieves, and links it to social power structures in families and to religious laws, not ethnicity or nomadic origins.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by thejackgoode on Thursday January 06, 2022 @11:27PM (#29834839)
Here’s a piece that I found, I vaguely remember there was more in that lecture on the topic:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz3hBuq-Huk

While it’s possible to differentiate these two things like you mentioned, if you look at honor as a concept, it’s useful function is about curbing higher cost of distrust. And that Sapolsky does explain in the linked video.

Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by Jon_Lowtek on Friday January 07, 2022 @03:11PM (#29844080)
Well Sapolsky sure seems to love to make dubious absolute statements and oversimplifications in his lectures, and yet he still says that pastoral nomadic honor cultures foster strict rules of hospitality, which is not the same as hospitality in and of itself, even if it can be an amplyfiyng effect. I would be more inclined to agree that "strict rules (of hospitality)" and "violent enforcement (of subservience)" are flip sides of a coin. Note that "honor killing" is a very loaded term and quite different from domestic violence and retribution.
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by nmfisher on Friday January 07, 2022 @01:29AM (#29835729)
Interesting. Does that mean there's a low level of petty crimes like theft?
Re:Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly upri... by unionpivo on Sunday January 09, 2022 @11:25AM (#29864655)
yes