News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:35AM (#29768978)
There is a veritable war going on for your attention, and the battlefields are your eyeballs, your ears and ultimately your brain. Psychologists have been enlisted, as they are in every war to try to win it for 'their side', be it one of the big silos or some dying TV or newspaper era behemoth, there is no reasonable way in which you can withstand that kind of frontal onslaught. The only way to really deal with this is to not participate.

Beware or you too will be collateral damage on the balance sheets of these media conglomerates. Unmediated reality is still there for you to peruse, but 'augmented reality' will be the next big wave for tech and I'm pretty sure that it will end up being used mostly for advertising purposes.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by le-mark on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:50AM (#29769121)
Recently my son (8) was talking about how cool his uncles vr headset is and made the leap to what if that was in your brain! I was impressed he made that connection. Then I reminded him how all the games on his iPad forced him to watch ads, wouldn’t that be a similar situation, only in his brain? His eyes got wide then he got a disgusted look on his face. He agreed that would suck.

I personally think there have always been distractions, maybe what’s different now is how some people get positive validation from their social media interactions, certainly an author would. A lot of people don’t though.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by IHLayman on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:44AM (#29769596)
I hate to be that person but I must point out that there are studies that show that children less than 10 years old using VR can have impaired head-trunk coordination. See this study for more info: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-96866-8
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by touisteur on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:25AM (#29770054)
Thanks for the link, I think modern VR's paint is still fresh in everyone's mind (well... mine at least) and you brought a scientific article. I'm now wondering if the effects could be made beneficial for physical therapy.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by zippystrider on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:16AM (#29769959)
If you install and adblocking app on the iPad, your son can see fewer ads (e.g. AdGuard, AdBlock) on these games. Alternatively, you could set up Pi-hole on a Raspberry Pi to block ads across the network.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by anigbrowl on Sunday January 02, 2022 @04:42PM (#29774248)
This isn't something you need to explain to people here. It's like responding to someone's comment about unpleasant weather by suggesting that they could wear different clothes.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by sneezles on Sunday January 02, 2022 @05:12PM (#29774563)
The reason that people here know about this stuff is that this place is full of people sharing helpful tidbits like this.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:57AM (#29769176)
That kid will go places if he can reason like that at that age. Wow.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by daniel-cussen on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:19AM (#29769985)
Funny in Mario Kart 64 there's billboards so the roads look like roads, for realism. They are ads that say "Yoshi" and such. They are just not ads.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by batch12 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:13AM (#29769300)
Yes. People talk about addiction to social media or other attention-farming software, but not many people really take it seriously. People think they are unicorns and while some can get addicted or manipulated-- they think "not me. I am too savvy." As long this issue just keeps getting shrugged off as a new version of tv-is-bad hysteria 'media' companies will keep making their dollars and enslaving the minds of the the unwitting willing.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by tcbawo on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:51AM (#29769659)
I called my Aunts and Uncles for New Year's Day, and they all brought up politics within ten minute conversations. It's not that media is forming their opinions. It's framing the topics of their thoughts and conversations. Conveniently, all these topics such as national/state policy and compliance, crime statistics and trends can only be fed by more media consumption. I worry about the permanence of the effects from these behavioral patterns. ADHD is a real medical condition, but there is also something else at play. It feels like we haven't developed the vocabulary to talk about these issues properly. I would love to tell people (like my Aunts and Uncles) something to the effect of "you seem a little X". Where X means your perspective is clouded by excessive media consumption.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:16AM (#29769331)
One form this takes is that people with some regularity claim that 'all this advertising doesn't work on them' while having an iPhone, ridiculously over-priced in ear headphones, designer clothes with large logos on them and shoes with very visible branding.

Advertising works, on everybody. The only way to get to a level playing field is to filter it out of your life as much as possible. The only thing I haven't found a solution for is billboards and radios and TVs playing in places that I have no control over.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by speedcoder on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:22AM (#29769381)
https://www.tvbgone.com meant as a prank. And I love using it almost anywhere.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by slickdork on Sunday January 02, 2022 @03:27PM (#29773443)
I miss when cell phones had built in IR and you could do this with an app.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:23AM (#29769395)
That looks like an excellent way to get lynched.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by hindsightbias on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:16AM (#29769960)
My sneakers have branding because there isn’t a place to try jogging shoes with no branding.

NB also made their logo reflective, so there is utility in that. All these people running in black shorts and shirts, there ought to be a law.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by anigbrowl on Sunday January 02, 2022 @04:50PM (#29774346)
For most of the last decade I've worn sneakers shoes with no visible branding unless you're very close or can look at the sole, even though they're by major shoe companies everyone knows. My current daily walking around shoes have a logo but it's smaller than my pinkie fingernail and I have to squint to notice it. You don't have to be a billboard if you don't want to, and you can still enjoy the comfort of good design/manufacture at very reasonable cost.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by barrkel on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:37AM (#29770180)
And a large fraction of fashion items are made out of advertising; that is, the value proposition of displaying a branded item comes from the web of associations generated and maintained amongst your social group by the fashion brand's advertising efforts, which will in turn be associated with you by exhibiting the item.

This means that it is actually possible to not be affected by advertising and still use fashion items, on the theory that everyone else is affected by advertising and the effect you want is to leverage that effect.

I'm sure the most fashionable people are aware of this since they need to parse the fine distinctions of brand associations to maximize their desired effects. Ironically I think they may be the least affected by the advertising even while becoming the strongest real world advocates.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by ikr678 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:19PM (#29776950)
Your can make your brand associations more meaningful though. I've started to embrace hyper-local street fashion. Wearing tshirts from local businesses in my area that I enjoy (bars/cafes/local brewery merchandise).
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by zippystrider on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:29AM (#29770094)
>The only thing I haven't found a solution for is billboards and radios and TVs playing in places that I have no control over.

This might sound silly, but I deliberately train my eyes to avoid looking at advertisements on posters whenever I take public transit (not completely successful, but it does reduce exposure).

For radio advertisements, that's what the 'over-priced in ear headphones' are for (admittedly a luxury and not a necessity as I could achieve the same effect with earplugs or cheap, noise-isolating earphones, but I enjoy the high-quality music).

TVs are the most difficult because they easily catch attention due to the moving picture. I also try to avoid looking at them like billboards when I go to the gym (plenty of TVs) and turn off the display whenever using the treadmill, but it's a conscious decision I make before walking in.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think the value of iPhones are overstated by advertising. I purchased my first one after reading a book by an academic about the lack of privacy in technology. It was a suitable option for a phone that's relatively private while working with relatively easy setup (versus most Linux phones). So, iPhone usage may reduce the effectiveness of targeted ads by collecting less data to use for advertisers.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by derwiki on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:28AM (#29769427)
Is there a way to _prove_ one is less influenced by advertising? I have an Iphone but several models old, and most of my clothes are Amazon Basics/brands with no logo.

So yea, I echo the claim. But I’m probably wrong. Where’s my blindspot? Is there a way to test how affected I am by ads?

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by zippystrider on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:45AM (#29770267)
A good benchmark would be your tendency to make purchases based on emotions, and also your tendency to make impulse purchases.

I volunteered in several marketing positions for educational non-profit organizations and university clubs, and read books about marketing and advertising to try to improve at my job.

A great deal of advertising tactics rely on emotional appeal first (e.g. identifying a human need or fear–like the want to belong, the want to find a good romantic relationship, the want to save time or money, the want to look smart–then selling a product or service as a solution. Another common tactic is to reduce friction to make a purchase, to make impulse purchasing easier (e.g. one-click purchases, very visible purchase buttons). A third is to use other high-pressure or manipulative tactics (e.g. a countdown timer to get a discount, or offering free gifts or books to make a purchase).

You're likely to reduce the effectiveness of these advertising tactics on you by being aware of them (though there's a high chance they still have an effect). Besides knowledge from reading about advertising, good habits to reduce ad effectiveness include: delaying purchases, especially large ones, by writing them on a list and seeing if you still want them after a month; avoiding regular, small purchases of ~$20 because they add up; and holding yourself to a personal budget, where impulse spending comes at the cost of other life goals (e.g. setting up an emergency fund, saving to afford a vacation with a loved one, or pursuing educational training).

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jrochkind1 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @03:05PM (#29773163)
Succesfuly quitting smoking cigarettes two years ago gave me some additional insight into what "addiction" meant for me, what my relationship with cigarettes/nicotine was like for me. Which led to me for the first time fully recognizing my social media use as addictive, not just as a metaphor.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by datavirtue on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:20AM (#29769360)
Yeah, that was the point of the shill OP. Nothing to see hear folks...move along.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by samwillis on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:39AM (#29769004)

  "The only winning move is not to play."
War Games (1983)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MpmGXeAtWUw

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:48AM (#29769112)
I don't think that the context of that fragment really applies here.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by samwillis on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:50AM (#29769125)
It was more your phrasing reminded me of that quote. Agreed it’s not really relevant, other than as yet more distraction.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by wrnr on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:45AM (#29769082)
The entire way the old media reports on the new media is unironical scaremongering about how the internet is hacking the fear response of your amygdala. They should instead be positive and publish articles like "Here are 10 youtube channels that go into more depth that the master program of any university".
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:48AM (#29769103)
Sure. And then, at the end of every youtube video a whole slew of totally unrelated trashy videos that are perfectly produced to produce maximum engagement and eye candy will hijack your attention and steal another 3 hours before you even notice that they're gone because of the in-your-face nature of the recommendations.

Wouldn't it be great if all youtube did was just store and replay videos? But it doesn't, it's an engagement and advertising dollars slot machine.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by bittercynic on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:28AM (#29770083)
Not a complete solution, but I like to block the elements that are most distracting to me.

  www.youtube.com##.html5-endscreen
  .ytp-pause-overlay
  www.youtube.com###secondary
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by xg15 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @03:25PM (#29773415)
Does that actually stop the autoplay or just hide the countdown?
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by bittercynic on Sunday January 02, 2022 @06:14PM (#29775175)
Neither.

If you use the toggle next to the closed caption to turn off autoplay, instead of playing another video the player will show thumbnails for other videos after the current one finishes. These filters prevent those suggestions from showing up, and you just get a black rectangle when the video is finished.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:35PM (#29771022)
Thank you!
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jarvist on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:51AM (#29769135)
Could you point me in the direction of a single YouTube channel that goes into more depth than a Masters program?

Other than occasional captured lectures, everything 'educational' on YouTube seems to me to be optimising for that TED-style sense of wonder / happy familiarisation with the content, which is poorly associated with learning outcomes.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by Vetch on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:11AM (#29769907)
It's difficult to find material that's a series, rigorously demonstrated and advanced at the same time (there's lots excellent material that ticks either one or the other of those boxes). Here are some examples I subscribe to that come close:

Covers Quantum Field Theory and General relativity in as approachable a manner as I imagine is possible while still going deep into detail: https://www.youtube.com/c/viascience/videos

Theoretical machine learning, Information theory and probabilistic inference: https://www.youtube.com/user/mathematicalmonk/videos

Heavy emphasis on analysis and measure theory: https://www.youtube.com/c/brightsideofmaths/videos

While ScienceClic's coverage of differential geometry topics is mostly a thin vertical slice of the subject, it covers it with incredible visualizations and pedagogical approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xodtfM1r9FA&list=PLu7cY2CPiR....

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by howenterprisey on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:16AM (#29769329)
The "occasional captured lectures" are still pretty strong. Off the top of my head, here are two lectures:

https://youtu.be/5ESJH1NLMLs "Children of the Magenta Line" by Warren Vanderburgh https://youtu.be/YvEB05xdAy4 "Total Synthesis of Vitamin B12" by RB Woodward

You may tell me I'm cheating by posting videos that are obviously not "native" to YouTube, but YouTube was the way I found them, how I watch them, and how I share them with other people.

OK, so YouTube-native videos are hard mode. Try https://youtu.be/WHASYE2e5Xo I suppose? I like it. It has life lessons I'd argue are at least as valuable as the videos you're thinking about.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by dento on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:01AM (#29769791)
https://www.youtube.com/c/AndreasKling

Kling is building an operating system and a web browser, and frequently relases videos about the work. Most go through development of a single feature. The videos are unedited to show all of the development steps: design, implementation and debugging. A Masters program usually has more theory and larger scope, but this is more hands-on and in-depth.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by wrnr on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:21AM (#29769370)
For real, learn to abuse youtube and twitter algo's. I get random suggestions like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq2BxAJZ4Tc&list=PLUZ0A4xAf7...

Math and art are thing I like, just keep hard blocking stuff you don't like and upvote stuff you do.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by speedcoder on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:30AM (#29769449)
Well, "The Biggest Rock" back when Onion talks were funny: https://youtu.be/aO0TUI9r-So
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by kordlessagain on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:18AM (#29769338)
Just search for this video will make you angry.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by krapp on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:03AM (#29769235)
But the internet is hacking your amygdala, and has been for years. Most of the information and stimulus you come across on the internet is designed to manipulate you, deceive you and control you in some way, and it works. This has real ramifications at scale, as the spread of disinformation and violence enabled by social media has shown us.

This isn't unironical scaremongering, it's a real thing and it is newsworthy. "Here are 10 youtube channels that go into more depth that the master program of any university" is exactly the kind of clickbait garbage people wish the media would do less of.

Also, the "old media" no longer really exists, it lost its identity and was assimilated long ago. Every media outlet that exists is deeply invested in the web, everyone is "new media" now.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by criley2 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:52AM (#29769143)
Why would old media publish articles that people don't want to read? No one would read "here are 10 youtube channels that are more in depth than a master program". They would go out of business in a quarter. It's not like old media doesn't publish a variety of content and then evaluate which gets the most views already. They know we don't want to sit through fifty hours of academic lectures instead of reality tv.

I also think it's funny to describe "old media reporting on new media as scaremongering" when scaremongering in the form of conspiracy theory and false expertise in new media (social media) is arguably its greatest flaw. What facebook et al have empowered in terms of fear and control is truly breathtaking. I don't think the insulated tech community of hacker news can truly appreciate how many people in the West have been led to fully distrust science and academia. How many reject medical science and climate science. How many have been manipulated into thinking collapse and violence are imminent and have engineered their entire lives around that belief, from moving to far away rural areas and stockpiling weapons and supplies. The breadth of the scaremongering and thoughtcontrol that social media enables is unparalleled in our history.

But sure, the problem is "old media".

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:56AM (#29769165)
The scary thing about that is that if you convince enough people that violence and collapse are imminent it may well become true.

Scenes in Amsterdam right now:

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6176186/noodbevel-museumplein-n...

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by inetknght on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:33AM (#29769480)
For someone who can't see the pictures or read dutch, can you summarize?
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:36PM (#29771047)
One of our political parties has found out that by pressing the 'anti-government' button and piling on a bunch of conspiracy theories they can mobilize scarily large sections of society for protests, which invariably turn violent because there is a radical element at play.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by annadane on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:59AM (#29769765)
Why is this downvoted?
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by mc32 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:57AM (#29769177)
I’d say more broadly it will be used for manipulative purposes.

It’s a great tool for getting eager participants and then “gamifying” it to achieve some wanted behavior that extends to real life.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by neuronic on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:00PM (#29770468)
A Pokemon GO - like game but developed by a subversive power to destabilize society further and further, inch by inch, slowly until the strength withers from within.

Would be a decent Black Mirror episode.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by mc32 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:18PM (#29770758)
Yep but with real life implications such as social credits and in game credits to influence behavior.

For example we have people who forgo actual social interaction and instead favor synthetic relationships and achievements.

Potentially you could maid millions happy by giving them a synthetic world and IRL they live off some form of UBI but because the made up world is most of their existence they don’t mind nor care about their IRL standard of living going down, etc.

Re:We need to reclaim our attention by blowfish721 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:49PM (#29771263)
Or maybe a Southpark episode? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinpokomon
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:34PM (#29771014)
Charles Stross has this, a game called 'Spooks' in one of his books.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by jacquesm on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:59AM (#29769194)
That is much darker, but also a distinct possibility.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by ModernMech on Sunday January 02, 2022 @10:33AM (#29769481)
There is a popular meme that shows the landscape of a colonized Mars, and the skyline is filled with McDonald’s and Chevron billboards. I think about that a lot.
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by hammock on Sunday January 02, 2022 @11:16AM (#29769965)
You ever see the movie Demolition Man?
Re:We need to reclaim our attention by ModernMech on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:01PM (#29770494)
Heh yeah. Judge Dredd comes to mind too.