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Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by simonh on Sunday December 19, 2021 @03:37PM (#29618115)
This was at a time when there were still many different client applications for internet services such as FTP, Gopher, News, email of which a web browser was just one. It was only later with the emergence of web applications that it became clear the browser itself would become the universal client and actually be a platform in it's own right. Until then Windows being the dominant platform for internet apps looks like a straight forward extension of it's role as the dominant platform for desktop apps generally.

Microsoft moved aggressively to integrate internet client capabilities, mainly web client capabilities, directly into the desktop. This is what lead to many of Microsoft's regulatory problems because doing so integrated Internet Explorer components deeply into the operating system, which was seen as anticompetitive bundling. That issue aside, it also lead to windows long running internet security issues because it meant core operating system services were directly exposed to external networks, with minimal security protections.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by throwawaylinux on Sunday December 19, 2021 @09:41PM (#29621002)
> Microsoft moved aggressively to integrate internet client capabilities, mainly web client capabilities, directly into the desktop.

As I remember, they moved aggressively but only after failing to anticipate or even make significant early reactions to the "world wide web", which allowed Netscape Navigator to rapidly take the majority share of what should have been made obvious by the Mosaic browser. Microsoft would take years to respond.

And when they responded it wasn't really with the aim of making better products, but with aggressive (and possibly anti competitive) sales strategies and by introducing deliberate incompatibilities and proprietary features.

I think the very consumer oriented nature of MS made them the enemy number one in mainstream nerd culture, but this behavior is nothing new or different about Microsoft. Large corporations in general I believe are ill suited to "innovate" and that can't be fixed. Not just ill-suited actually but they actually stifle it. Despite everyone claiming they want innovation, when the rubber hits the road they actually don't. It's easy to sell small incremental improvements in performance or cost or features. It's hard to sell something that will obsolete a corporation's most profitable product, or make a VP's business redundant, or kill the sales strategy that the CEO's team has spent a decade perfecting.

It's not even innovation per se, simply reacting to something new well after the writing is on the wall and nobody can deny it is a challenge for an organization. Everyone from executives down to managers and even individual workers have their own fiefdoms that they protect so even things that would be quite clearly in the best interests of the business can be difficult to achieve. Intel is a great example of this with their server group protecting Itanium and holding their territory against the PC group, which resulted in the small upstart AMD defining the 64-bit extension to x86. And then not long afterwards, their PC group defended their turf against their mobile division which resulted in them completely failing in the smartphone market which has arguably almost entirely driven the woes they face today with TSMC overtaking their manufacturing capability and ARM Ltd, Apple, Amazon etc rivaling their high performance CPU design and server products.

(Sorry that rant ended up way off topic and doesn't really address what you wrote, I don't think you're wrong, just clarifying that Microsoft was aggressive in strategy but not in technology development or adoption)

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by incompatible on Monday December 20, 2021 @04:52PM (#29630804)
When they realised that they wouldn't be able to marginalize the web, they licensed the Spyglass browser and bundled it as Internet Explorer. That was remarkably successful, as Windows users used that instead of bothering to install Netscape, and it wasn't long before many websites wouldn't work properly with anything but IE. However, over time Microsoft apparently put IE on a back-burner for further development as they tried to herd people back into their proprietary protocols. That left an opening for a comeback of Netscape in the form of Mozilla.
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by giantrobot on Sunday December 19, 2021 @06:33PM (#29619732)
> It was only later with the emergence of web applications that it became clear the browser itself would become the universal client and actually be a platform in it's own right.

Outside of e-mail, the non-browser Internet applications were on their way out by the mid-90s. Mosaic put the first nail in their coffin and then Navigator hammered in a few more.

Graphical web browsing was just a richer experience than what Gopher offered. Netscape's support for Gopher, and like FTP, just made it a web-like experience. WAIS was essentially dead by the mid-90s.

Navigator obviated the need for myriad applications to access a bunch of different servers. It didn't help that as graphical browsers were gaining traction UMN decided to charge license fees for their gopher implementation while several early web servers were FOSS or at least freely licensed.

In 1995 if you wanted to start some Internet service there was no reason to do so on Gopher, WAIS, or some bespoke protocol. The web covered those services' capabilities and added a lot more, especially with HTTP 1.1. So I'd content the browser as a universal client for Internet services was pretty evident soon after Mosaic's release and a foregone conclusion with the release of Navigator.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by hollerith on Monday December 20, 2021 @02:44AM (#29622351)
Gopher never got particularly popular. IRC, MUDs, FTP and particularly the newsgroups were the popular services in the early 90s.
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by tomjoro on Monday December 20, 2021 @05:32AM (#29623210)
Gopher was more widely used that WWW until 1994, and it was a basic install on most Internet nodes in the first few years of 90's. The point of Gopher was it was one of the first widely deployed protocols that allowed you to find things, like a Mosiac Browser to download. It died quickly but was an important stepping stone.

In 1990 IRC had average of 12 users :) (but other chat programs were used before IRC) . True FTP, other chats, MUDs, email, etc. were widely used/available.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by hollerith on Monday December 20, 2021 @09:05AM (#29625049)
I was reading a lot in the newsgroups starting in 1992 and saw a steady increase in http URLs being included in posts, and IIRC there was never a time when the frequency of gopher URLs exceeded that of http ones.

Note that the web is older than Gopherspace with the first gopher site appearing in mid-1991.

While looking up that last fact, I see that there was heavy interest in gopher by colleges and universities. Maybe our experiences differ because you were in college then?

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by ant6n on Sunday December 19, 2021 @08:27PM (#29620595)
> Outside of e-mail, the non-browser Internet applications were on their way out by the mid-90s.

Well, except games.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by anthk on Sunday December 19, 2021 @04:11PM (#29618465)
Windows 98SE is basically IE4 on top of a kernel.
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by simonh on Sunday December 19, 2021 @09:43PM (#29621021)
Windows 98SE was full blown copy of Windows. For this to be correct we'd have to say that Windows 95 and 98 were just a kernel. If you're salty about the bundling of IE that started with various OEM releases of Windows 95 anyway, not 98SE and not even 98.
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday December 19, 2021 @04:27PM (#29618599)
Isn't that exactly what Cromebooks were when they were released many years later?
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by Spooky23 on Sunday December 19, 2021 @04:42PM (#29618712)
Sort of. Microsoft’s goal was to funnel you into a minimally viable browser and funnel you into grownup apps.

Once they killed Netscape, they literally disbanded the IE team. They also did anti-competitive shit like buy and slow-roll Hotmail to protect the golden goose. (enterprise EAs of windows and office + oem licensing.)

They are doing the same thing today with identity and security for enterprises.

Chrome is Google’s attempt at a first party solution stack. It’s weird though as chrome is owned by different teams in Google than other user facing products.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by kevingadd on Sunday December 19, 2021 @05:47PM (#29619310)
I don't know that I buy that being the strategy, at least all the time. HTAs were a very early swing at what 'Progressive Web Apps' are today and back when you had access to activex components, etc those apps could do tons of stuff. Of course, the security attack surface was a nightmare so that all got slowly murdered, but I think at one point there probably was a serious attempt to let people build real apps using web technologies.
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by solarkraft on Sunday December 19, 2021 @06:10PM (#29619523)
> at one point there probably was a serious attempt to let people build real apps using web technologies

Tied to Windows, mind you.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by forgotmypw17 on Monday December 20, 2021 @02:01AM (#29622170)
Google promotes building (and builds themselves) in such a way that it only works well on Chrome, just barely works on Firefox and Safari, and doesn't work at all in any other browser.

Unless you count reframed Chromium as "other browser", the equivalent of using Microsoft's IE-based WebBrowser component back in the day.

I really don't see much of a difference.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by kevingadd on Sunday December 19, 2021 @06:59PM (#29619952)
Hey, they shipped IE for Mac!
Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by GekkePrutser on Sunday December 19, 2021 @10:11PM (#29621183)
Without ActiveX support of course as that depended on Windows DLLs.

Not that that was a bad thing though. As mentioned it is a really bad idea to auto download code off some random website and execute it. Naive we all were back then...

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by Spooky23 on Sunday December 19, 2021 @08:05PM (#29620452)
Maybe. But there were a thousand other cuts. The weird Java integration, IE5 forever, etc.

Microsoft isn’t run by dumb people.

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by ChuckNorris89 on Monday December 20, 2021 @03:09AM (#29622460)
>Once they killed Netscape, they literally disbanded the IE team.

I find that dubious. Do you have any sources for that?

Re:Windows: The next killer application on the internet (199... by kanwisher on Monday December 20, 2021 @07:58AM (#29624388)
Look at release schedule after ie 6 there were almost no major upgrades for years. Ie 7 was a pretty minimal upgrade. It wasn’t until ie8 did they start doing new features again and this is only after chrome started taking massive mindshare

First link on a google search confirms all this

https://www.quora.com/What-strategic-thinking-persuaded-Micr...