News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by civilized on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:07PM (#29587208)
I don't understand what Amazon thinks it's doing with its legions of data scientists, analysts, product managers and engineers that they consider so much more important than solving this problem, which will destroy their reputation long-term and create space for a competitor.

At this rate, Amazon will be on its way to becoming Yelp -- untrusted, irrelevant, ultimately deserted.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by mananaysiempre on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:21PM (#29587285)
Ensuring a competitor can’t arise in other ways? Unlike Yelp, Amazon has oodles of expensive and difficult-to-replicate physical infrastructure, hordes of low-level staff, exclusive supply contracts aplenty, enough cash reserves to price-dump anybody into oblivion, and probably many other things I don’t even know I don’t know about.

Competition only works when barriers to entry are absent, small, or at least surmountable. “Disruption” is one way to circumvent that, but it isn’t magic, either.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by ashtonkem on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:56PM (#29587943)
I’m sure the brick and mortar stores felt similar before Amazon came and ate their lunch. Expensive and difficult to replicate infrastructure is a protective measure until it suddenly becomes a millstone around your neck due to its cost and inertia.

On the other hand customer trust is also a great moat to protect you from being usurped, and no company will ever come to rue having too much consumer trust. Amazon is foolish to spend this consumer trust down for increased profits.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by KennyBlanken on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:19AM (#29588132)
Amazon is now directly chartering cargo ships: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/technology/amazon-cargo-s...

They don't even have to spend cash to price-dump. Wallyworld and the membership warehouses get cheap prices by dangling huge purchase orders in front of companies. "We can always go to your competitor" is the unspoken threat.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by arbuge on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:43AM (#29591959)
> Amazon has oodles of expensive and difficult-to-replicate physical infrastructure, hordes of low-level staff, exclusive supply contracts aplenty, enough cash reserves to price-dump anybody into oblivion, and probably many other things I don’t even know I don’t know about.

The playbook to disrupt this was made clear when AirBNB disrupted, or at least bit a good chunk out of, the hotel industry, which could have been described in very similar terms. And they didn't have to replicate any of their physical infrastructure to do it.

Shopify, BigCommerce, and similar players are already doing it to Amazon. I predict this trend will continue.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by danuker on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:54AM (#29591468)
> enough cash reserves to price-dump anybody into oblivion

Maybe, just maybe, that isn't the best investment. The competitors could pause while Amazon is having its fit.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by paulpauper on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:31PM (#29587353)
Same for YouTube. they allow blatant crypto scam videos to run (such as videos impersonating famous people like Michael Saylor) yet none of their hundreds of highly paid engineers are able to do anything even though it is such a blatant fraud and people are losing a lot of money. It's like "who cares if users are being ripped off. sucks for them. not our responsibility." Unless a law is passed holding these companies accountable, little will change.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by klabb3 on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:34AM (#29588248)
> yet none of their hundreds of highly paid engineers are able to do anything

Moderation doesn't scale well, so hundreds of engineers don't go very far even if you put them all on moderation. Google doesn't like to put money on anything that can't be automated (even when it's the appropriate, like customer service), hence you see only ML filters that of course can't tell the difference.

Also, careful what you wish for. As we've seen, one man's moderation is another man's 1A violation. I'd much more prefer comments, downvotes and user defined filters to do the accountability, than a guaranteed-shitty DOA moderation/truth keeper team. I worry much more about YT's slow creep towards a fully auto-play, advertiser friendly TV equivalent.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by CabSauce on Friday December 17, 2021 @11:32AM (#29594444)
The first ammendment doesn't apply to a private company.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by stjohnswarts on Saturday December 18, 2021 @03:21AM (#29602813)
Yes it does when it comes to free speech. What gives you the impression that it doesn't? I mean it might not be good for your stocks, but companies have most of the same free speech rights that a regular person has.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by jiggawatts on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:21AM (#29588142)
I get unusually annoyed by fake movie trailers. The type that edit together random scenes from previous movies and get 17M views.

Like… wtf. If an actual content creator uploads something they filmed in their own garage but there’s a sliver of a poster in the background with Mickey Mouse in it, it’s instantly flagged as a copyright violation.

Straight up reposting of 5 minutes of a movie pretending I be a new one? Fine, go ahead…

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by cube00 on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:55AM (#29591487)
Lots of ad dollars to be made on 17M views so I'm not surprised they really take their time to carefully consider and weigh up the opposing arguments of removal, free speech and what not /s

Meanwhile the one with 200 views gets their channel banned along with their Google account.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by yawaworht1978 on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:30AM (#29593492)
Assuming this is the person's first viral video and they have no affiliate contract yet, do they get something in retrospective?

And if someone is a partner, how much money would they make just by the views? Let's exclude followers etc. Do they get something for just the views or do they have to have ads in the video?

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by LeonM on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:17AM (#29591183)
Thank god I am not the only one experiencing this.

I am generally interested in space related subjects, but my feed is constantly full of fake 'live' SpaceX and Elon Musk videos. These are just old SpaceX streams overlayed with crypto scams.

No matter how often I report these videos as misleading, the keep being recommended to me. At the beginning, reporting a video would make it disappear from my feed instantly, but now, even after reporting the video stays in my feed. My guess is that the report/view ratio of my account is probably so bad now that Youtube is no longer processing my reports as trustworthy.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by annadane on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:34AM (#29588669)
And now that they removed the dislikes, good luck finding the scam videos (as a user)
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by ivanche on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:59AM (#29591042)
Enhancer for YouTube [1] is your friend. I use it in Firefox but I think there are extensions for Chromium based browers too.

[1] http://www.mrfdev.com/enhancer-for-youtube

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by spamizbad on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:31PM (#29587354)
Those hundreds of fake reviews are a feature, not a bug for Amazon. They drive sales. And when the chickens come home to roost, as you say, Amazon will probably figure out a completely different trick to juice sales.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by timmytokyo on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:08PM (#29587609)
In the short term Amazon may benefit from this. But the fake reviews, throw-away brands, and counterfeit items are gradually corroding Amazon's credibility and brand identity among customers. This is the first year I've heard family members (who are frequent Amazon customers) complaining about these kinds of issues.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by onion2k on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:47AM (#29588323)
But the fake reviews, throw-away brands, and counterfeit items are gradually corroding Amazon's credibility and brand identity among customers.

Amazon are very good at making money. This is not a problem for them; it's an opportunity.

Before Amazon lose all their credibility they'll introduce something like "Amazon Assured" that sells customers a guaranteed real item. They'll charge sellers for the privilege of having the "assured" status on the product page, and make filtering by assured status something that's only accessible to Amazon Prime users.

Users will believe Amazon are doing this to protect them.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by deadpannini on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:36AM (#29593577)
I don't get the implied scorn. Isn't reliable information valuable? Worth paying for?

It sounds like you think this information should be priced in. I'm accustomed to that as well, since it has mostly been the commercial default for most of my life, but maybe unbundling it is worth a shot.

After all, "Consumer Reports" isn't free either, and caveat emptor has forever been the law of the market.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by hoofhearted on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:38AM (#29591338)
Already exists, it’s called Amazon Transparency.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by rectang on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:28PM (#29587743)
By the time the negative long term effects are felt, the executives responsible for the short term juicing will have extracted massive personal wealth.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by rileyphone on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:33AM (#29588238)
Every empire declines eventually. And I think they really earned that wealth.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by shellfishgene on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:51AM (#29590012)
And they enable the competition - Aliexpress has the exact same stuff as Amazon now, but at cheaper prices. And they are working very much on the long shipping times with warehouses around the world. Sure, the service and support is far removed from Amazon, but then prices for the same crap are often 50% less. Also to me it seems they are much harder on cheating sellers.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by SXX on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:00AM (#29590090)
And Aliexpress also just refund you money if target delivery time of NN days run out. And then you get your afforable chinese crap for free with no requirement to ship it back to Aliexpress.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by wolverine876 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:35PM (#29587375)
> Yelp -- untrusted, irrelevant, ultimately deserted.

Is that true of Yelp? People I know still use it (I don't).

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by MattGaiser on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:18AM (#29588124)
Indeed. As much as few I know trust Yelp, there really isn't anything close to an effective alternative, except for maybe the Uber Eats ratings.

This is why this is not a problem for Amazon. Removing Amazon from my life would require substantially restructuring it and losing a lot more time procuring goods. Have I been burned a few times by shoddy goods? Yes, the alternative is spending time in stores or spending days waiting for packages. I can order something in the morning and have it delivered by the evening.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by wolverine876 on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:41PM (#29596374)
FWIW, I've dropped Amazon and it was mostly just a change of habit. After becoming familiar with other options, it has been just as easy to order (and better in other ways).
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by civilized on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:33AM (#29591306)
I think Google reviews are better to be honest.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by binarybits on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:42PM (#29587433)
What do you use?
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by wolverine876 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:37PM (#29587804)
It depends on what I'm looking for. People I know, local news, objective data, just trying different places until I find one I like. There are no great answers.

Yelp does serve as a sort of index of shops.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by tshaddox on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:39AM (#29592746)
Google Maps reviews.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by mathattack on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:17PM (#29587686)
This problem flies in the face of their customer-centric view.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by bagacrap on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:33AM (#29593532)
I think it's a question of incentives. For scammers, 100% of their success is dependent on beating the review system. For Amazon, losing the battle will cost them much less than 100% of their profits.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by stjohnswarts on Saturday December 18, 2021 @03:19AM (#29602801)
I'm no genius but it would seem like with some human trainers and some smart AI algorithms this could all be fixed fairly rapidly. Maybe I just don't understand machine learning well enough :)
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by moneywoes on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:33PM (#29587364)
Bait and switch reviews likely lead to more sales and hence revenue
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by managerclass on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:45PM (#29587451)
What do you use as an alternative to Yelp for finding restaurants?
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by rectang on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:32PM (#29587773)
I go to every restaurant in a geographical area. Right now I'm going through all of the City Heights district of San Diego: 65 down, about 25 to go...

I've also done Del Mar (110 restaurants), Downtown SD (around 80 before I stopped) and 30th Street (maybe 35 or so?).

Oh, and I've been in a group for the last 10 years that goes out to eat at a new restaurant every couple months.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by mda on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:55AM (#29589608)
Google maps. Has its flaws, but not bad at all.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by User23 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:47PM (#29587471)
I talk to actual people.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by speedgoose on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:41AM (#29589088)
Le guide Michelin.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by frabcus on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:45AM (#29589115)
Foursquare still exists amazingly and is pretty good.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by Mashimo on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:05AM (#29589277)
Ask Friends. Or just try them out.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by winternett on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:32AM (#29588230)
These companies are probably hiring more psychologists and marketers than product quality testers... It shows.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by torbTurret on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:30PM (#29587349)
Amazon retail, maybe, which is not their money maker anyway.
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by wolverine876 on Thursday December 16, 2021 @10:38PM (#29587392)
Disinformation is widely accepted by much of SV and FAANG. Amazon isn't different than Facebook in this respect.

But it's widely accepted by the public. I can barely complete a sentence about it without people dismissing it.

Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by nunez on Thursday December 16, 2021 @11:03PM (#29587575)
Yelp is far from deserted, unfortunately
Re:Amazon still isn't doing enough to stop bait-and-switch r... by chaostheory on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:29AM (#29588628)
Yelp? I think you meant eBay