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Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by AtlasBarfed on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:16AM (#29431632)
It's a bad time to cut quality. Lego has never really had serious contenders in its decades of existence, but the Chinese knockoffs are getting pretty good from what I can tell. They are producing knockoff sets for 1/3 of the cost, and the quality is reaching lego-levels.

And this isn't low profit margin. Lego has gotten the Chinese to raid several of these guys (Lepin) and it didn't slow them at all.

The real gauntlet just got thrown down recently. Remember the UCS Millenium Falcon? Well a MOC builder made a UCS but with an interior model of the Falcon as well. Guess where you can buy that? Well, NOT Lego, and I think that's a problem in Lego management.

With the internet there should be FAR MORE Lego-provided sets. Sure, have the Harry Potters and Star Wars sets. But we are talking about a company that (granted to very good tolerances) is charging a LOT for very cheap plastic. They should be exploiting far more of the long tail.

Why can't I buy from Lego a complete set of old-school Classic Space? Or Castle? Why do sets go "out of print"?

They are leaving money on the table, and the Chinese/Malaysian/etc companies will happily fill the void.

From what I can tell, the fake Lego industry has already structured itself into a somewhat legal resistant form. The base legos are manufactured by one set of companies, which they can do 100% legally.

Those companies sell the blocks to the companies that produce the knockoff sets. If you raid those companies, well fine they lose some stock and they just setup somewhere else with the exact same sourcing.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by Grustaf on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:58AM (#29432182)
> With the internet there should be FAR MORE Lego-provided sets. Sure, have the Harry Potters and Star Wars sets. But we are talking about a company that (granted to very good tolerances) is charging a LOT for very cheap plastic. They should be exploiting far more of the long tail.

Lego now has infinitely more models than when I grew up, and they seemingly increase the catalog every year, so this is a very strange criticism. They have Marvel stuff, Friends, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Simpsons, etc etc etc. The number of sets is truly bewildering. Obviously they can't produce everything forever.

Also, they are not selling "cheap plastic" anymore than Netflix is selling "cheap electrons". The plastic bricks are just the medium, the product is the design, the Lego brand, the licensed brand (if any), the whole experience.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by gmueckl on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:35PM (#29432684)
I haven't had a close look at Lego bricks for years until a few weeks ago and got a chance to compare that with copycat set. That made me extremely aware of the high level of quality that a Lego set has: the bricks are extremely well made and durable, the sets are working and (more or less) exciting and the build instructions are designed meticulously to make it clear where everything needs to go. The instructions are broken into smaller steps for kits aimed at younger children.

One thing they seem to have lost over the years is the flexibility of the kits: I remember many kits having instructions for several alternate models, encouraging you much more to take things apart again after building. Newer kits are mostly a single model and that limits the fun that you end up having with them. The invitation to tinker seems gone.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by Grustaf on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:41PM (#29436542)
Yes, the re-build aspect is almost gone. As I kid I got maybe 5-10 original sets over a 10 year period, and a few bags of random bricks, and I played and played with that. Nowadays the idea is more build and forget. If you're lucky they'll play a bit with the finished model, but they don't seem to be making their own.

One fun fact about the instructions, I recently learned from a Lego designer that the reason they use many different colours on the inside of most models is to make it easier to see what's going on while you're building. That explanation never occurred to me, but maybe it's obvious.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by AtlasBarfed on Saturday December 04, 2021 @08:29PM (#29445977)
I think the real reason colors have exploded is that it forces you to buy the set to build the model, you can't build models from other sets if the colors are different. Well, you can, but most people are above that level of OCD.

I noticed this after buying a crapton of legos on craigslist for, um, my new kid! I do have a new kid, but anyway, the colors vary far too much now.

Charitably, the colors probably subtly act like antialising does in rasterization, so it might make a blocky model seem more organic. But I think the business of selling more sets is also a sneaky reason.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by Grustaf on Saturday December 04, 2021 @10:56PM (#29446568)
I’m talking about differently coloured bricks on the inside of a model. That is definitely not some nefarious scheme to make you buy more lego.

Nowadays there are so many custom pieces and people don’t really rebuild much anyway, so they don’t even need to discourage what you describe using colours.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by tspike on Friday December 03, 2021 @01:41PM (#29433498)
There is an excellent and extensive range of Creator 3-in-1 sets, as well as the entire Classic line which encourages specifically this. For the themed sets, they stopped including ideas on the back of the box because people would complain that instructions weren't included.
Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by Aeolun on Friday December 03, 2021 @02:31PM (#29434200)
> For the themed sets, they stopped including ideas on the back of the box because people would complain that instructions weren't included.

This is why we can’t have good things sigh

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by dwd on Saturday December 04, 2021 @05:10AM (#29439898)
I still have a collection of original instructions from the mid-70s onward: I'm guessing they are potentially more valuable than the actual bricks that my kids have now outgrown.
Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by rootusrootus on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:25AM (#29431753)
1000% agree. My wife is into Lego creator/expert sets, in particular buildings. So I typically buy her a new one at least twice a year, for her birthday and Christmas. I'm having to work harder now to find sets she hasn't already built, and having to pay more because they're out of production already and Lego isn't building new ones too often.

I accidentally bought a Chinese knock-off set, and it was surprisingly good. The brick quality was totally comparable to Lego. The part that was lacking was the build methodology -- it was damn near impossible to build successfully the way the instructions said. But there's more variety in the knock-off sets, more accessories like lighting and such, they cost half as much (and probably still have a ridiculous margin). Lego should be worried, and they should step up their game. Becoming known for collectibility seems to be their strategy right now, but it is going to make people like me look elsewhere.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by 2muchcoffeeman on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:13PM (#29435577)
The part that was lacking was the build methodology -- it was damn near impossible to build successfully the way the instructions said.

How much does good documentation and designing models costs? You can’t just copy pieces of plastic.

I have a Creality 3D printer. The hardware itself was good. But the tinkering needed to get it working was a lot. All the useful help came from the community. The official support is useless and every time I contacted them they are incapable of telling me if something is in spec, out of spec, or even point me to documentation.

Imagine giving a child a physical toy that you need to consult the internet for instructions because the included ones are incomplete or wrong. Maybe you have a piece missing and the instructions are wrong.

Even if Lego is charging too much, they may have head room. When they feel they are being threatened, they can lower prices and still have the best kits and we’d all flock back.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by rootusrootus on Saturday December 04, 2021 @12:40PM (#29442550)
> How much does good documentation and designing models costs?

I agree. This is probably the most difficult part by a good margin for the Chinese companies to effectively copy. The documentation itself was surprisingly good (they basically copied the style of the Lego books), what they don't have are people who are the equal of the 'lego master model builder'. Someone who really knows how to engineer the model both for the final result as well as the process to make it.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by HWR_14 on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:35PM (#29435877)
> Why can't I buy from Lego a complete set of old-school Classic Space? Or Castle? Why do sets go "out of print"?

Unlike digital copies, molds have a limited lifespan. Making a one-off piece for a set needs to be done in the tens of thousands (or more) or not at all.

Meanwhile, if I understand, they have a program to assemble parts lists and instructions for one offs.

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by pjc50 on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:49AM (#29432084)
> Why do sets go "out of print"?

Injection moulds have a finite life, so parts go out of print. Unfortunately their tendency to use set-specific parts causes this to make sets go out of print.

(Obviously they could make another mould, but that commits them to a whole print run to make it economically viable.)

Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by mcphage on Friday December 03, 2021 @12:06PM (#29432291)
Injection moulds do have a finite life, but since set-specific parts are only used in a single set, those moulds won't wear out nearly as fast as the moulds for common bricks.
Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by svnt on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:55AM (#29432153)
That is definitely the first-order engineering answer. However once the concept/possibility enters into executive consciousness all bets on the “why” shift to profit motive.
Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by Grustaf on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:58AM (#29432194)
Why wouldn't they have a "profit motive"? They are a company, not a charity.
Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by throwaway41597 on Friday December 03, 2021 @07:02PM (#29437202)
What is a realistic lifetime for an injection mold used for Lego bricks? Does someone here know the order of magnitude of pieces you can manufacture with one?
Re:Lego has designed a set that can't be taken apart by pjc50 on Saturday December 04, 2021 @10:14AM (#29441316)
https://www.wired.com/2013/02/retired-lego-mold-reddit/ gives an example of 120,000,000 (!), which probably means the "special piece" argument doesn't entirely work.

On the other hand, they quote "one moulding machine working for an hour almost equals one LEGO star destroyer", which does explain why they're so expensive.