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Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by PaulHoule on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:02PM (#29283718)
I don't believe it.

Einstein is overrated. If he hadn't been born other people would have come to the same conclusions.

Physicists today are working on problems that are dramatically harder to solve. It's true that thousands of people can dogpile in a research area where the opportunities are illusory, but most problems succumb to elbow grease and liberal use of trial and error.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by chrisco255 on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:50PM (#29284144)
I think Einstein had a particularly unique way of thinking. In fact, he discovered relativity by doing thought experiments, purely by combining his intuitive understanding of light with imagination. Such experiments can only really be conceived in a singular mind.

Individuals matter.

Maybe we'd have had to go another few hundred years before someone else conceived it. While we can't prove a negative (we don't know what the alternate Einstein-less universe turns out like), certainly there have been examples of technology that has been forgotten or lost and it can take another thousand years before it is rediscovered.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by bitexploder on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:03PM (#29284266)
Except we were on the verge of discovering it even then through multiple people. So we can be pretty sure most of it would have come to pass within a generation. Agree he had a unique way of thinking but there is a lot that is over attributed to him and exceptionalism in general. Still a great thinker of his generation, but there were many such individuals.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by newsbinator on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:48PM (#29284126)
> If he hadn't been born other people would have come to the same conclusions.

Definitely. But in his generation?

Some things, like Calculus, pop into human understanding because there comes a time when our existing tools + our understanding of peripheral stuff inevitably intersect.

Other things maybe not.

One of my favorite sci fi short stories, The Road Not Taken, has as its premise that some scientific discoveries might be low-hanging fruit that we happen to overlook in one generation after the next, so we develop along one road and not another.

In this case, simply because no particular Einstein comes along to explain it to us, and because our other discoveries, impressive as they might be, are always one or two circles of overlap removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(short_stor...

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by antognini on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:55PM (#29284198)
Poincaré was very close to the special theory of relativity when Einstein published "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" in 1905. And David Hilbert discovered the Einstein Field Equations a few days before Einstein. (They really should be called the Hilbert-Einstein Field Equations.) If Einstein hadn't existed we wouldn't have had to wait generations to learn of relativity.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by kryptiskt on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:17PM (#29284361)
There is no way Hilbert would have been working with that without Einstein's work. Hilbert was a mathematician, not a physicist, who based it all on Einstein's premises.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by taylodl on Monday November 22, 2021 @12:01PM (#29308641)
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by bigbillheck on Friday November 19, 2021 @08:00PM (#29284600)
> Some things, like Calculus,

Also famously and indisputably invented by one singular unique mind.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by newsbinator on Friday November 19, 2021 @08:11PM (#29284651)
> Today the consensus is that Leibniz and Newton independently invented and described the calculus in Europe in the 17th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz–Newton_calculus_contro...

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by bigbillheck on Friday November 19, 2021 @08:24PM (#29284728)
Yes, that was the joke.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by Arrath on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:54PM (#29284181)
Love that story also, and the conclusion of "oh no what have we done"
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by desireco42 on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:01PM (#29284252)
Einstein is definitely genius and I get what Naval is saying here. Still you are right that Einstein got credit for everything yet his wife was excellent mathematician and did math proofs for him, made his imagination possible, he also relied on a work of other people.

I think we would come to same discovery, but it would be significantly different ie. it would might be more complex. His theories are definitely flavored by his thinking.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by hereforphone on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:44PM (#29284079)
If we all took the "someone else would do it someday" view, we'd never praise anyone.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by teorema on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:08PM (#29284300)
The problem isn't who we praise, it's who we don't praise.

Maybe we live in a different world today but my sense is scientific innovation happens in a very different way from the genius model.

Sometime long ago I came across an article arguing that we've replaced the concept of a saint with a genius, as the worldview shifted from religion to science. It was very compelling.

Increasingly I feel like there's only collective recognition. If you're too far ahead of the curve or behind it's all the same. Being at the curve just means you're recognizing everything at the same time as everyone else.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by AnimalMuppet on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:10PM (#29283771)
Others would have come to the same conclusions? For special relativity, yes. For general relativity, no - nobody else was walking down that road. For the photoelectric effect? Maybe.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by ChrisLomont on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:53PM (#29284172)
Tons tons of people were working on special. Hilbert had sent a paper on nearly every part of it in n before Einstein, it got delayed at the publisher, Einstein submitted his, then Hilbert sent in an updated manuscript with the same results before Einstein published. As a result of this there was a lifelong priority cold war between them.

Hilbert derived general relativity 5 days before Einstein [1]. Einstein won the public relations difference because his previous work.

It was that close.

Recall Hilbert was vastly better at the math, and was catching up leaps and bounds on Einsteins intuition at the time.

Dozens of others were also close. Minkowski, Cartan, Poincare, all were doing the same stuff, trying to unify the same items.

So had Einstein done nothing, many others were immediately going to reach the same results.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity_priority_...

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by czzr on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:13PM (#29284336)
Thanks for the link - reading it, though, it’s not clear that your summary is fair. Plenty of scope for Hilbert to have been building on things he learnt from Einstein.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by bigbillheck on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:35PM (#29284461)
Plenty of scope for Einstein to have been building on things he learnt from Hilbert.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by ChrisLomont on Friday November 19, 2021 @08:11PM (#29284654)
Einsteins famous quote about his difficulties in mathematics stems from this period. Hilbert had mastered the be relevant mathematics, and was closing in on relativity much faster than Einstein. Hilbert was teaching Einstein the tools Einstein needed.

Recall at this time Hilbert was a god in mathematics, and one of the best that ever lived. He did groundbreaking work in n many areas of math and physics.

Of the two, each left alone, it's far more likely Hilbert would have arrived first. Working while corresponding likely made Einstein much faster and Hilbert slightly faster.

Einstein took 8 years to work out general relativity. Hilbert started working on physics in 1912 and by 1915 had gotten to where he was deriving general relativity. The speed he worked in physics and the broad range of topics he influenced in physics far outshines Einstein. Hilbert famously said physicists don't know enough math to do physics. He was right at that time - his math mastery let him plow through physics much faster.

To see the scope of things attributed to Hilbert versus attributed to Einsteins simply look over their Wikipedia pages.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by vsef on Friday November 19, 2021 @07:00PM (#29284243)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity_priority_...

This is just not true. Einstein's earliest GR work is a collaboration with Marcel Grossman. Hilbert's work is so close and overlapping that it takes quite a bit of effort even to verify that Einstein's work was genuinely independent.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by PaulHoule on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:46PM (#29284105)
If you take the equivalence principle seriously GR is the simplest possible theory.

I think the most profound work in mathematical physics of Einstein’s generation was done by Emmy Noether and Einstein thought so too.

Her trail really induces modern physics as we no it.

Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:47PM (#29284118)
Thanks very much for posting this response. Everything I've read about general relativity has basically said that if Einstein didn't come up with it, it could have been many decades until someone else did. It was just that unique at the time, and Einstein's genius really was as deservedly celebrated as it's been.
Re:One Einstein Is Worth a Legion of PhD Drones by ogogmad on Friday November 19, 2021 @06:44PM (#29284080)
> For general relativity, no - nobody else was walking down that road

Hilbert? (I don't actually know.)