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Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by wufufufu on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:29AM (#29176554)
The shrooms community has known about this for a long time, and now it's just about recreating the knowledge in peer-reviewed studies. Although there is a lot of "woo woo" on shrooms usage in the online communities, I do hope that researchers can extract the useful bits.

This isn't like an SSRI. 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. Your setting and "head space" matter a lot for how your "trip" (which we will now rebrand as "treatment") will go. This needs to be accounted for in future studies.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by dorchadas on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:33AM (#29176611)
> This isn't like an SSRI. 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. Your setting and "head space" matter a lot for how your "trip" (which we will now rebrand as "treatment") will go. This needs to be accounted for in future studies.

This is what I worry about. It's likely great, when done in the care of a licensed and trained therapist. It's not the mystical panacea many will make it out to be, and I worry that people will do it when they're not with the right people and it'll be a mess.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by abrichr on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:43AM (#29176782)
The Huberman Lab podcast episode on depression touches on this. According to Dr. Huberman the quality of the trip is not important, the chemical changes the brain function regardless.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by nverno on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:05PM (#29177099)
Anecdotally, I've also noticed the most profound lasting positive effects on my mood after the worst trip I ever had- an absolute nightmare for no good reason (same people I'd tripped with before, familiar places, etc), but the following couple weeks I was on cloud 9. There are so many confounding factors, but at the time I was completely convinced the trip was responsible for the following positive period.

The experience was sort of like an extremely intense workout, or emerging from a sweat lodge- it was painful, but led to a sort of rebirth. It may be simply, when you're already in good spirits prior to tripping, the results are just less noticeable afterward.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:58PM (#29178847)
~70% of people who have "bad trips" don't regret the experience.

The terminology is actually being phased out, especially in the medical community. "Good" and "bad" might be appropriate descriptors if you're just trying to get high and have fun, but they're not quite right if you're trying to work on yourself and your mental health.

Some trips are easy, some trips are difficult, and just like in real life, it's often the difficult journeys which cause us to learn and grow most.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by sharadov on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:01PM (#29177894)
Did you see lasting changes? Or they were mostly temporary.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by nverno on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @02:35PM (#29179443)
I've never made it enough of a habit to feel like I've had long-lasting changes, but I do have one friend with serious life-long depression, who has approached psilocybin use methodically, as a means of treatment along with periodic ketamine dosing, and it seems to be working quite well. However, I'm not sure about long-lasting effects after quitting these drugs entirely. There are so many life-factors influencing 'depression'.

Everything is just strange when tripping, from the things you see to human interactions to life in general- whether the strangeness is beautiful or terrifying depends on the trip, but afterward it can have a lasting (at least long after the drug has worn off) child-like appreciation for things that might've been mundane, boring, or tedious. How long this break from monotony, or revitalization lasts, is hard to say.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by dorchadas on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:46AM (#29176824)
But is it solely the chemical changes in the brain that "fix" the depression, or does it also have to do with integrating what you've seen and experienced into your worldview?
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by abrichr on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:10PM (#29177169)
Apologies in advance for the formatting, copied and pasted from YouTube transcript:

https://youtu.be/Xu1FMCxoEFc?t=5928

99:33 But one of the things that came up

99:35 and is a fundamental question that I had,

99:37 that I think probably many of you are asking,

99:38 is does the experience that one has on these compounds

99:43 make a difference for whether or not somebody gains relief

99:46 from depression, from these psilocybin journeys or not?

99:50 In other words, does it matter what they talk about?

99:52 Does it matter what they think about?

99:53 Does it matter if they have a good trip or a bad trip?

99:56 And I don't want to hold you in too much suspense,

99:58 I'll let Matthew provide the more thorough answer.

100:00 But what's really interesting

100:02 is there are some common themes to psilocybin administration

100:08 and experience that lead to relief from depressive symptoms,

100:11 but they are subjectively very varied,

100:17 meaning that whether or not people feel

100:20 they had a good experience or a bad experience,

100:22 whether or not people thought about their parents

100:24 or thought about the color of the ceiling,

100:27 doesn't seem to have too much of an impact

100:30 on whether or not they receive relief

100:32 during these studies in these clinical studies.

100:37 It seems like different people can have

100:38 lots of different experiences and still receive benefit.

100:42 And that points to something deeper.

100:45 It points to the fact that these drugs,

100:48 which is really what they are,

100:49 are rewiring neural circuitry in a common way

100:53 despite a diversity of experience while on the drug.

100:57 And that itself is really interesting.

100:58 And it takes us back to a place that we've been before

101:01 in this discussion, which is layer five of the cortex.

101:04 This area that ketamine seems to impact as well

101:06 by generating rhythms of the,

101:08 I mentioned one to three Hertz activity

101:10 in layer five of certain areas of the cortex.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by cwkoss on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:10PM (#29178037)
I wonder if the mental health benefits require consciousness. Would be interesting to study if tranquilized or anesthetized subjects get the same effects.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by renewiltord on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:12PM (#29178067)
> It's likely great, when done in the care of a licensed and trained therapist.

As someone with a lot of experience with psilocybin, there's all this mysticism around it. People act like you're injecting fentanyl. If someone doesn't have a license and training, you're going to instantaneously see flying demon dragons and go schizophrenic.

It's actually fairly tolerant over quite a large range and I know a lot of people who have used over the last year and they are all in spectacular shape.

It reminds me about all that nonsense on HN last year about how if you weren't tested and trained on wearing N95 masks, you wouldn't be able to use them effectively. People over-rate licensing.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by tgittos on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:23PM (#29177343)
From personal experience treating mental issues with psilocybin, this isn't a dose you need to do frequently. Think 1/year.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by pizzeriafrida on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:36AM (#29176668)
Translating a dose in mg to the equivalent amount of dried mushrooms you would likely come across recreationally is quite difficult, but I believe 25mg equates to something like 4-5g of dried mushrooms which would be a full on trip beyond surfaces flowing like water :sweat-smile:
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by kemayo on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:38AM (#29176710)
I did some brief googling on the topic earlier, and the best I could find was "anywhere from 5-20 milligrams of psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom". Which is very unhelpful for working out whether these people took a strong dose by recreational standards. :D
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by Zircom on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:17PM (#29177262)
It's more or less impossible to know the psilocybin content of any one specific mushroom offhand, and it can vary greatly even between mushrooms from the same batch, thus microdosing with actual shrooms is an inexact science. You can grind them up into powder and mix it together to average it out, but the total psilocybin will still be an estimate at best.

There is 4 aco dmt, which is supposedly gets converted to psilocin just like psilocybin and I don't believe is illegal in the US, however it degrades very easily into psilocin if stored incorrectly so can be dicey to have since psilocin itself is still illegal.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by johnmaguire on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @02:05PM (#29178990)
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by amelius on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:20PM (#29177312)
Isn't uptake through digestive tract unreliable? Mental disorders require extremely precise dosing, therefore probably should administer intravenously.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by kemayo on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:49PM (#29178689)
Most psychiatric medications are applied through eating pills, mind you, so this seems like a criticism that applies to a vast field of medications...
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by goodroot on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:19PM (#29177296)
> 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday.

I would disagree. For many, 25mg is sub-perceptual.

Source: have done this over several year.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by WalterSear on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:31PM (#29177438)
3-5 grams of mushrooms?

I want to work where you work. I hope it doesn't involve heavy machinery.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by me_me_me on Thursday November 11, 2021 @05:57AM (#29186649)
it depend on your weight, and potency of batch.

I have settled on 2g every 3rd day. 1g dose seems to work only on empty stomach and I have to pay attention to feel difference in my mood.

I can easily see a big guy taking 3-5g and not feeling much beyond mood boost.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by nobodyofnote on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:33PM (#29178425)
I think you're confusing 25mg of psilocybin with a microdose of 25mg of dried mushrooms. 25mg of pure psilocybin is anything but sub-perceptual.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by goodroot on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @05:44PM (#29181986)
Ahhh - yes, missed this.

Holy hell, yeah that'd blow the roof off for sure.

Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by OnACoffeeBreak on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:27PM (#29178332)
I am guessing the 25 mg does here is of pure psilocybin, which is about 2.5 g of dried mushrooms.
Re:Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduce... by tayo42 on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @12:40PM (#29177575)
20-something mg of 4aco dmt was pretty wild, psilocybin must be somewhat similar