Yes. America’s problem is that they use the SSN as a secret. Knowing it means you can impersonate someone.

Whereas in Sweden the “person number” is public information and identity is authenticated and authorized in other ways (by showing a driving license or using a “bank id” app etc).

In the nordics how much tax you pay (meaning for most people you can just divide by twelve to determine salary) is also public info. As is how much houses sell for etc.

The public library probably have the local "Tax-calendar" (taxeringskalendern). Like an old fashioned phone book except instead of phone numbers it has the taxed income for everyone in your town for the last year (there is of course web sites with this info too but no free service that I know of). Spent an hour at the library looking up my coworkers salaries when prepping for my first pay negotiation many years ago.

That seems like a horrible sideeffect of that system.

Yet the reality isn’t so bad. It’s not like the people in the nordic countries think it’s a problem or suffer any because of it.

The wage secrecy in the US must be one of the factors contributing to the perpetual inequality.

I wonder if the publicity works well against work via tax evasion. Anyone can combine whatever you do with your ID. If you earn a lot of money black on the side (e.g. via drugs dealing), while your income is public and you got this expensive car, then its not just suspicious. Anyone can look you up, figure out you're a sham, and report you.

True, people with low income and flashy spending habits regularly attracts the attention of the tax authorities. So a little bit more savvy criminals funnels their black money through a legit company, in effect paying taxes on a little bit of it. Restaurants was/is popular for this (mostly cash). Used car businesses too.

SSN isn’t even a well-kept secret, considering you have to give it out for banking, medical, or anywhere else that needs to identify you.

We should have a kind of username / password system instead, where everyone has a unique ID and a separate private ID. We could even use something like RSA so you never have to give out your private ID to anyone.

According to this article, if you get accidentally declared dead in the US, companies and institutions make their own copies of the death records and they aren't kept in sync with the governments. So even after you become alive again, at any moment, someone might switch the bit on their database, and you become dead to few companies again.

https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2019/01/how-exactly...

Kind of interesting how this HN post shows that transparency is important, because fixing an error like erroneous death in other countries isn't as bad as it is in the US.

Anyway I ended up writing about it as a use case for crypto, because the blockchain part of a transparent ledger is important for being a companion to the public memory: your birth, your marriage, your relationships with relatives, and your death.

https://www.dyingtowrite.com/posts/2021/33_crypto-isnt-what-...

You mean like many cryptos are pushing? A pub key and private key...

House sales are generally available in the US at your tax assessors website.

California property tax map:

https://www.officialdata.org/ca-property-tax/

ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE PER CA GOV CODE §6254.21

I believe Offentlighetsprincipen is one of the main foundations of the success of Sweden as a democracy. It acts like a filter on corruption. Dumb politicians are regularly exposed early in their careers. Only really smart, subtly corrupt politicians make it to the top level of government.

You mean, like Mr. T? Or Putin?

I wouldn’t call those subtle.

Now, if you’re referring to only those politicians in your own country, then I have no reference for levels of subtlety involved.

Well, Sweden of course. Niether USA nor Russia have the Offentlighetsprincip as far as I know.

Does that not lead to the potential sticky situations that my mind immediately jumps to?

Edit: I read through your link and did some light browsing of my own (later stonewalled by the fact that I don't speak any of the Scandinavian languages). I don't see anywhere that a citizen can re-assert their right to privacy but that would seem to be necessary in some cases (e.g. Twitch streamers wanting to remain incognito to avoid getting SWATted or otherwise frequently visited by police).

> I don't see anywhere that a citizen can re-assert their right to privacy

Rights depend on jurisdiction. I’m not aware of any right to privacy regarding place of residence or tax returns in Sweden.

A resident is entitled to file for a “protected identity” which would obscure their address, phone number and person number on these types of services. Even celebrities tend to avoid doing that unless they have a persistent stalker, because it leads to all sorts of practical problems when dealing with everyday administration.

You'll have to help me. What does your mind jump to?

> I don't see anywhere that a citizen can re-assert their right to privacy

That's because you usually can't.

In extreme cases you may be eligible for protected identity[1], but that status is not easily achieved.

[1] https://skatteverket.se/servicelankar/otherlanguages/inengli...

Can we provide some examples?

Rebecca Schaeffer's murder led to some privacy reforms in the US.[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer

An example from Sweden would be appropriate.

Was it random or did Olof Palme have a stalker?[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme

Neither. The murder case has been officially resolved so you can just Google it now.

Btw his place of residence was hardly secret, but it wouldn’t have been if he were prime minister of any other particular country either.

"Most critics focused on the absence of forensic evidence, charging that Petersson's case was made up of speculation and circumstantial evidence."

But if the case is officially resolved, well that's all good then. Nobody followed the Prime Minister to the theater and waited for him to leave in the dark of night. No stalking to see here, because Sweden. Move along.

The official conclusion was that the murderer did probably spot the Palmes as they entered the cinema, giving him time to go and borrow a revolver and get back in time to kill him once the movie was over. I don’t know any definition of stalking that would include that sequence of events. But the topic was data privacy - I strongly doubt that the facts that Palme’s person number and address were public contributed to his death.

celebrities getting harassed at their houses

This is actually pretty commonplace in the LA area. I mean, you can take a tour bus that points out dozens of celebrity’s homes. It’s why many actors and influencers hire private security.

I guess it happens. But if you really want to harass a celebrity, can't you just follow them to their house?

You have to find them first. Knowing their address means knowing where to find them, and that they can't escape you

Hi lady at the grocery store what is your name.

It’s Jane Smith

Later that day…

For an even clearer example. There's this list of the 25 most searched for people last year: https://www.ratsit.se/info/omtalade/mest-eftersokta-forra-ar... . I can recognize several celebrities there, most of them artists, and even our prime minister.

You can see addresses, if they own dogs, which cars they own, what salary they have (the site I linked needs payment for that, but there's other ways to get it for free), the companies they own or own a part of.

this is very valuable data for any advertiser to use for targeting

I’m sure they get direct mailings from purveyors of exclusive consumer products. Just like I’m already getting mail about buying a house because I bought an apartment last year. What’s the harm?

That would not be GDPR-compatible.

> the sites have publishing certificates, which gives them the same constitutional protection as the media. They are not covered by the GDPR and the Data Inspectorate can therefore not examine them. It is also written that the authority has been critical of the fact that the sites can receive constitutional protection through the publication certificate. [1]

[1] https://www-svt-se.translate.goog/nyheter/inrikes/jurist-tar...

I'm sure the sites are legal. I was referring to the comment about such data being used for marketing.

The issue is never general doxxing, it's targeted attacks.

Not a problem in high trust societies.

Korea is a high trust society and stalking is a huge problem.

It's never a problem. Until it is.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a "high trust" society.

Just count the number of celebrities murdered by stalkers each year in Sweden to learn the risk. That’s right, it’s 0.

Does Sweden have celebrities?

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden)

Very topical. Agneta used to have a pretty persistent stalker. I believe she eventually married him for a while. Pretty sad story but no stabbing involved.

Sure there is. In Sweden, no one locks their doors at night. They don't lock their cars, even in the densest cities. It's well known that in Sweden, the only significant category of crime is petty theft, most often pickpocketing, where the thief will remove a small "finder's fee" and return the rest of the wallet, contents intact. (https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-rise-of-sweden-democr...)

I live in Rural TN and we too neglect to lock our doors (and our cars, I might add). In fact, my in-laws leave the keys to their cars IN THE CAR, and unlocked.

I'd argue this has a lot more to do with high trust local communities, rather than high trust "societies". Maybe I'm nitpicking, but the implication seems to be that somehow "American society" (whatever that means) is inherently low-trust. But the fact is America is so diverse, trying to create a useful comparative analysis there is difficult.

This is the main reason PewDiePie (game streamer) moved out of Sweden.

I doubt it. More likely he didn’t enjoy the tax rates…

In the United States SSNs are treated as secret. I shouldn't have t care if other people know my DOB or SSN, but I have to care because tons of companies and government offices use these as proof of ID.