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Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by fsflover on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:01PM (#28587411)
How is it better than I2P: https://geti2p.net?

Upd: found this: https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/freenet.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by azalemeth on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:22PM (#28587587)
My understanding is that:

-- i2p was originally a fork of freenet

-- Freenet was designed and conceived as a datastore, fist and foremost, whereas i2p using 'garlic routing' was apt for any IP protocol proxied over it (a bit like tor)

-- Freenet therefore is more efficient and distributing popular data

-- There are some concerns about the algoirthms behind freenet's anonymity, which i2p claims [1] are troublesome.

-- Incidentally, I have heard complaints about the crypto behind i2p, but I am not expert in this area enough to comment. My understanding is that the consensus is that "tor r is better", but note you can e.g. run freenet over tor if desired.

I played with both as a curious teenager around the time they were released. I am now largely terrified to, because of the prospect of accidentally finding CSAM, which I suspect is very high on both platforms.

[1] https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/freenet

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by wongarsu on Sunday September 19, 2021 @06:08PM (#28588406)
> I am now largely terrified to, because of the prospect of accidentally finding CSAM, which I suspect is very high on both platforms.

Chilling effects in a nutshell.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by amelius on Sunday September 19, 2021 @06:59PM (#28588738)
It's in Bitcoin's blockchain too:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47130268

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by ikt on Sunday September 19, 2021 @07:45PM (#28589017)
that's bitcoin sv which is not bitcoin
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by kafkaIncarnate on Sunday September 19, 2021 @11:41PM (#28590181)
The principle remains, which makes it possible for anyone to do on any blockchain really. Encoding an image into the message of a transaction (or spanned over multiple transactions) should be fairly straightforward even with a simple bitcoin wallet. You should be able to make a CSAM NFT on Ethereum that nobody can expunge, as well.
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by not_m_anissimov on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:46PM (#28587782)
You're not likely to find child porn on Tor anymore unless you go looking for it. It's there, because Tor is much bigger than Freenet and I2P, but it's out the way. The hidden wikis were all cleaned up years ago. I bet the drug marketplaces thought it was bad for business to be listed alongside that sort of thing.

Freenet is the same as it ever was. I don't think you could play around on there and not find that stuff. Dunno what's going on on I2P these days.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by sanity31415 on Sunday September 19, 2021 @06:45PM (#28588635)
> Freenet is the same as it ever was. I don't think you could play around on there and not find that stuff. Dunno what's going on on I2P these days.

You're very unlikely to find it unless you're looking for it, none of the default indexes allow it.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by ArneBab on Monday September 20, 2021 @01:14AM (#28590568)
To find CSAM on Freenet nowadays you have to go out of your way to search for it. All the default index pages (entry points) filter out content that is illegal by itself (as CSAM is), and if you talk about that in FMS or Sone you’ll quickly find your pseudonym blocked by most accounts.
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by xvilka on Sunday September 19, 2021 @08:40PM (#28589298)
There is one more key difference - I2P has C++ implementation[1] which allows it to be run on the low-performance machines, e.g. routers. It is impossible in case of Java. I wish it had been Rust, though...

[1] https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by quotemstr on Monday September 20, 2021 @06:49AM (#28592297)
Why would it be impossible to run Java on low performance machines? There have been mobile and embedded Java implementations for literally decades. C++ doesn't magically imbue a program with performance superpowers either.

It's lazy to equate implementation language with performance profile.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by xvilka on Monday September 20, 2021 @09:03AM (#28593343)
> Why would it be impossible to run Java on low performance machines?

In some abstract case - yes, it's possible. In many concrete cases, including I2P, Java-written code is quite resources-consuming for anything close to the router hardware.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by ArneBab on Monday September 20, 2021 @01:01PM (#28596000)
In the concrete case, Freenet runs quite well on a Pi3. Just do not activate the Sone- and WoT-plugin (they are quite resource-hungry).
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by ArneBab on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @03:40AM (#28613938)
(and already with a Pi4, those resource-hungry plugins are no problem anymore)
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by red-Freenet-I2P on Monday September 20, 2021 @09:12PM (#28601019)
I've used heavily I2P and Freenet both.

To answer your question, better? Neither I2P nor Freenet claim to be inherently better than the other. It depends entirely on what you are using Freenet or I2P for.

I2P is like Tor but internal (it does not mainly anonymize clearnet traffic, think onionland) and it is anonymous by default. How anonymous? Theoretically as anonymous as Tor. You can use I2P for torrents and filesharing, pretty fast irc, etc. To host an eepsite (I2P site) you have to run a server and keep it running as long as you want the site to be up, similar to running a Tor hidden service or any server on the clearnet.

Freenet has a lot more static content (no JavaScript), reminds one of the early internet (in a good way, mostly). Hosting of freesites (Freenet sites) and files is distributed, no need to run a server to have your site up. There is no 'delete' button on Freenet either. Files/ sites are deleted when no one accesses them for a time. Popular content stays forever. Sites under 2MB in size typically stay forever. Freenet is not anonymous by default, you need to know people IRL who use it to create a friend-to-friend darknet for it to be anonymous. I use mine with a VPN.

Both networks are great, lots of cool people use them. I use FMS a lot (Freenet Message System, similar to Usenet) and Sone. When I use I2P I usually host a few eepsites and hang around Irc2p (I2P's irc). I recommend installing and using both. They're both great.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by hkt on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:18PM (#28587540)
They are different things. I2P is a transport layer, freenet is a (imo weird) combination of transport layer and distributed storage. So, running IRC over freenet (for instance) isn't a thing. Personally my take is that freenet is conceptually not as interesting as running bittorrent over i2p, but YMMV.
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by ogurechny on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:32PM (#28587666)
Freenet implements low latency queue and allows for near-realtime communication over distributed storage. Specifically, “IRC over Freenet” WAS made long time ago. You get modem-like delays and bandwidth, but is this a problem? Trying to use it when someone is actively searching for you is a different story, because there's a balance between sending data and being detectable.
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by hkt on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:39PM (#28587730)
TIL, my mistake. Thank you!
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by ArneBab on Monday September 20, 2021 @01:17AM (#28590577)
Not wanting to attack here, just wanting to add more info:

IRC over Freenet is actually in use today: It is called FLIP and has 1 minute round trip times. Which is shorter than what people typically notice (except if they actively measure it), because most take longer to type their answers than FLIP needs to deliver it.

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by red-Freenet-I2P on Monday September 20, 2021 @09:14PM (#28601028)
You're mostly right. There is FLIP (basically irc for Freenet) but as you can imagine it's very slow. No such thing as instant messaging on Freenet. You can theoretically stream live video at low resolution (with a large delay) but it's not really designed for dynamic content.
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by mikece on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:11PM (#28587483)
Without getting into which are better for now, are these the only two options for this concept right now?
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by fsflover on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:20PM (#28587556)
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by mastazi on Sunday September 19, 2021 @06:20PM (#28588475)
From the second link you posted:

> The two primary differences between Tor / Onion-Routing and I2P are again related to differences in the threat model and the out-proxy design.

This is the first paragraph. No further explanation is given about this point. The fact that it says "are again related..." suggests that the page used to have another paragraph before this one, that was later removed?

I would like to read about the different threat model and about the out-proxy design, anyone has sources?

Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by encryptluks2 on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:20PM (#28587563)
There is always Tor
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by dejw on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:16PM (#28587528)
how is it different to Tor project?
Re:Freenet is a peer-to-peer platform for censorship-resista... by edgyquant on Sunday September 19, 2021 @10:36PM (#28589894)
Tors not really “P2P” right? It bounces you around between 7 nodes so you don’t even know the peer you’re connecting to