Somewhat irrelevant in places where motor assist is limited to 25kph (EU for example).

I dunno if it's truly irrelevant,

didn't a celebrity spin out of control in a backyard and break his back at less than that? https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/aug/09/simon-cowell-b...

I think part of it may be familiarity perhaps, which I assume is higher in Euroworld.

No.

That would not even remotely be classed as an electronic bike in the EU.

It is far too powerful for that.

His electric motorcycle had a top speed of 60 mph (97 km/h) and a motor power of 15 kW.

The legal limits for a pedelec cycle in the EU are a maximum assisted speed of 15.5 mph (25km/h) and a motor of no more than 250w.

The motor in Simon Cowell's electric motorcycle is 60 times as powerful as the legal limit in the EU

thanks for this info!

When I first read the story I had assumed the accident occurred at very slow speed or full stop and mashing the throttle - so the 60mph v 25 would not have been something I would consider..

but 15kW vs 250w - now this is something that makes sense in this scenario for sure!

glad to have learned to eye this metric for this.

The issue is naming - term e-bike is used for everything while most if not all consumer "e-bikes" are actually pedelecs (no throttle, limited to 25kph and 250W, assisting only when pedalling). Every other e-bike is classified as moped/motorcycle which might require licence plate, registration and insurance. At least it should be like that in EU.

It turns out that wasn't an e-bike, it was an electric motorcycle capable of 60 mph.

Nancy the Van Seat, a comfy DIY e-couch conversion vehicle created at the Stupid Fun Club, had tremendously overpowered electric motors, a handheld remote control, could turn on a dime, but had no seatbelts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvXG4gQ2FWI&ab_channel=Digit...

I wouldn’t want to go faster. 15 mph is probably faster than I’ve ever gone.

A bicycle goes downhill faster then that with little to no pedaling involved. Doesn't even need to be a steep hill.

I wouldn't worry too much, I have routinely done about 50-60 km/h on a motorized bike and had 0 issues. Always had the best disk brakes I could buy though.

Anekdata doesn’t prove much here. Some things you might not be considering:

1. At 60 km/h you are going the speed of a car but car drivers don’t expect you to be going that fast and as a result aren’t wired to look for you. Doesn’t matter how fast you were going when a car going 60-90 km/h didn’t see you and ran you over.

2. Brakes are only half the equation. If your tires start slipping your brakes will lock up and then you go splat.

3. If you do happen to get off at 60 km/h you will have road rash that will take off large chunks of skin even if you wear an armored jacket and armored gloves. In spandex you’ll be looking like Deadpool pretty quickly.

4. Your tires will heat up pretty quickly at these speeds. That will affect how they handle quite a bit.

>car drivers don’t expect you to be going that fast and as a result aren’t wired to look for you That's why I use hi vis jackets and reflective motorcycle helmets. I am not going like a run of the mill bicylist. I use all terrain tires, I never had an issue and I am certainly not the only one that uses motorized bikes like this, in Argentina and Brazil for example, there are lots of people using them daily for their commute and nothing really happens.

>If you do happen to get off at 60 km/h you will have road rash that will take off large chunks of skin even if you wear an armored jacket and armored gloves Wouldn't that happen with a motorcycle too? I don't see your point

All fair points but it is quite an undertaking to build an ebike that does 60km/hr with a useful range. Heavy motor, serious AH high discharge battery and a controller that can handle those amps. Your battery system will need to be above 48volts. Pushing wind above 35km/hr requires a lot more energy for each 5km/hr gain.

45-50km/hr idea fairly easy though with a 48 volt system.

Re #1 - If you are driving at places without bike lanes being able to move together with traffic flow is essential. Which then you can ask - do you also not expect motorcyclist to be on road either?

A motorcycle is an order of magnitude more visible than a bicycle and goes in the traffic, not next to it.

Motor cycles get treated with a lot more respect than bikes. I had a 50km/hr ebike with red back light, front white blnky light. Cars turning left into your opposite lane of travel were the worst. They never judged my speed correctly and there were many instances where I had to emergency brake to avoid a t-bone many times.

I only road residential roads and bike paths, planned my route carefully to avoid highways. Key things are to take the lane if you can do the speed limit and only give it up if safe to do so. Avoid driving close to parked cars that will open their door and kill you. Watch left turns in front of you.

Note that as a cyclist I would also be very pissed if a 50kh/h bike was on a bike lane. Maybe outside the city on long stretches it’s fine.

A road bike on a bike path with a rider worth their salt is a bit silly as well.

The thing with riding that on a bike path was that I had no concerns slowing down amongst pedestrians or on blind corners as it was no effort to get back up to speed. I was less inclined on my road bike due to the effort. Road bikes can get up to that speed, had a few that came close to pacing me. I understand the sentiment but I had zero incidents in four years of commuting. I was courteous, used a bell. Half my ride was up hill on the path and it did 30km/hr there. Everyone went pretty fast down of course.

I'll admit, I did enjoy passing spandex on expensive bikes with my beater bike wearing jeans. This was a decade ago when ebikes were not at all a thing.

> The thing with riding that on a bike path was that I had no concerns slowing down amongst pedestrians or on blind corners as it was no effort to get back up to speed. I was less inclined on my road bike due to the effort.

Many bike paths seem to discourage slowing down for junctions by putting them in dips - the opposite of how some train stations are on a hump as "gravitational regenerative braking".

How so? If you got lights and hi viz you are about the same. Yes motorbikes are slightly bulkier, but not in a way that's going to make a difference.

Motorbikes are certainly louder which IMO why we should ban motorbikes altogether. I hate visceral hate to them.

Have you ever seen videos of how invisible you look despite all the high viz stuff? In some cases it becomes urban camo. Take a look at this video, especially at 2:30 or so. It’ll show you just how little visibility you’ll have:

https://youtu.be/eqQBubilSXU

Your best bet is to have all your clothing match your bike, Power Rangers style, to increase your chances. And lots and lots of very bright lights. One little handlebar mounted light is going to look like a reflection or a flashlight.

Cyclists going 60 km/h are in traffic, not next to it.

And at the same or greater risk of being rear ended as a car or motorcycle while wearing a foam hat and spandex underwear…

Motorcyclists get killed very frequently.

I have to plan for what cars might do at 15 mph.

I certainly wouldn't casually ride the shoulder of a US highway at 35 mph.

I've already noticed that many cars don't expect cyclists to go 25-30km/h...

15mph is nothing in terms o safety (granted no break problems). On flat lane I hit that regularly without pushing hard, most people can handle that outside crowded areas.

If the builder of a DIY bike choses to adhere to that....

But that is not an issue with e-bikes as a whole (it is also illegal and fineable in places where restrictions apply).

I kind of think that the difference between electric bike and motorcycle is that electric bike ideally should be used on bike lanes within speed limit. So if the intention behind making an e-bike is to use it like a motorcycle then yes, motorcycle will be safer. But if the intention is to use it as a bicycle, using bicycle infrastructure (which arguably is very limited in America unlike how things are in Europe) at bicycle speeds but just without coming to your job covered with sweat then bicycles are safe.

In America, bicycles are allowed to use car lanes ...

This guy is wrong when he says the UK "has a culture of commuting on two wheels." We have a huge problem with cycle infrastructure, as evidenced by the stats he presents. Ok, London's probably decent but transport everywhere else in the country is built around cars.

Compared to Canada (where Fortnine mostly films), anywhere in the UK is cycling heaven.

Picking a country like the UK who have stats available would be fine then, but suggesting it's a better case scenario with that comment about culture is just trying to skew the conclusion. It doesn't help that the stats show a massive difference in injuries/deaths as well. By all means, everyone should choose your favoured transport, but the video really seems like FUD.

It’s kind of a thing for me as a cyclist. Like I had to get good at handling a bike every speed slowly because I didn’t get faster overnight, I didn’t just go walking to 40 overnight.

It’s not just about how fast you are going. When you drive a car, do you look out for pedestrians running at 40? Would you be surprised if one showed up in front of you? Now imagine the same thing with a bicycle.

Wait you lost me. Is the cyclist the pedestrian or the motorist in this scenario?

The cyclist. If anyone on the road does something that the soccer mom or SUV dad texting while driving don’t expect, they are going to be in much greater danger than if they didn’t do the unexpected thing.

The same channel proposed using a similar kit with a donor motorcycle. You get the advantage of a stronger frame, better brakes and better tires: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM&t=300s

> As a motorcyclist, electric bicycles make me very nervous.

Riding one yourself, or others riding them? And if you could elaborate, why do they make you nervous?

They make me nervous, bc, as other commenters have pointed out- brakes, suspension, and traction matter a lot.

The difference between the cheap version of a motorcycle and the sport version isn't the engine, it's the brakes and suspension ( and now electronics).

But the main thing is the lack of helmets. One motorcycles, the center of gravity is low. You are more likely to fall and slide than go head over handlebars. At motorcycle speed, you should be wearing a full face helmet. I very rarely see the guys on e-bikes wearing full face helmets.

Then you look at the wheels and tires, higher speeds means more acceleration and faster stops, means more wear- which means much more maintenance. That most people aren't really paying attention to. Maintenance on two wheels is more than just a reliability issue, it's a safety issue.

Finally, people give no respect to bikes on the road. Especially in the US. You could be cruising along at 30 mph at the speed limit and someone will feel the need to pass you because you're on a bicycle.

People feel the need to pass you when you go the speed limit because they are used to driving much faster than the speed limit, not because you're on a bicycle.

I assume the commenter was talking about situations where it wouldn’t be possible for a car to pass another 30mph car (or the overtaking car driver wouldn’t be bold enough to try).

Feeling the need to pass because of speed plus the ability to pass because it's a bike, is pretty different from feeling the need to pass because it's a bike. At the speed limit both of those things will happen. At 5 over the former will be much less common.

As in I would rather ride a motorcycle on the road than a bike. On bike trails, a regular bicycle is great. Where there are very few cars or very good bike lanes, electric assist bicycles make sense to me. But when you have bicycles going at car speeds mixed with cars, but without good brakes, without turn signals, etc. I would be very nervous to get on one. They aren’t built for that speed and roads aren’t designed to handle them. Moreover, most drivers don’t expect them. I can be on a 900 lb motorcycle and still be invisible to some drivers. Now imagine what I look like on a tiny bicycle that’s zooming at 3x the speed most expect from it.

Here in North America, most ebikers just wear bicycle helmets. Bicycle helmets are only rated for a fall from 2.0m onto the ground, or about 22km/h. [0] Ebikes tend to go much quicker than this.

[0]https://www.astm.org/Standards/F1447.htm