On the topic of reusing bags, I wish it were as simple as stopping using single-use plastic bags. The most "environmental-friendly" alternative seems to be reusable-bags made of polyester PET(recycled), but you still have to reuse them on average more than ~35 times in order to have less environmental impact. graph: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental...
more info: https://ourworldindata.org/faq-on-plastics#are-plastic-alter...
"In fact, studies have shown that when we compare environmental impacts such as greenhouse gas emissions, energy, water and resource use, plastic packaging tends to have a net positive impact. The impact of plastic production and handling is lower than the impacts which would result from food waste without packaging."
On the flip side, most plastic packaging (mainly PE and PP) is non-toxic and biology doesn't really interact with it at all, even if you reduce it to microplastics. Yeah, that stuff is pretty much everywhere - but it's not really doing anything.
We're just starting to understand the harms plastics are causing to our health as we increasingly find plastics in places like our blood, our stool, and in our unborn children. There are already plenty of concerns about plastics resulting in hazardous exposure to endocrine disruptors. It's pervasive across the food chain as well. The idea that "it's not really doing anything" requires a dismal of all the harms we know about already and a remarkable level of optimism about what we will or wont find out in the future.
for more info see:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/22/micropla...
https://web.uri.edu/gemsnet/files/article_gemsnet.pdf
https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/p...
In fact, the monomers of PE and PP (ethylene and propene) are also not toxic, which is uncommon (compare with e.g. PVC: vinylchloride is toxic in all sorts of ways, polystyrol: styrene is also toxic in a few ways and damages DNA, teflon: it's monomer is also a carcinogen). This is important, because making plastics generally leaves precursors in the finished product: the more the worse the process control is, which costs money and requires know-how.
See e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23862761/ for a study looking at whether these are EDC; they're not: "There were no significant differences between test and control groups in vagina or uterine weight. Data suggest that effluents from plastic food containers do not appear to produce significant adverse effects according to Hershberger and uterotrophic assays."
The single most problematic plastic for health purposes is PVC. PVC in its chemically pure form (difficult to do) isn't bad, either. But pure PVC is a hard, brittle plastic, which is not that useful. So most PVC products consist of a large portion of plasticizer; some products (e.g. cables and other types of very soft PVC) are actually more plasticizer than PVC both by weight and volume. Both PVC and toxic paints are a popular choice for all kinds of toys.
"It is not always necessarily the chemistry that harms us. Sometimes it's the shape and the presence of foreign particles in our bodies," (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-autopsies-microplasti...)
It's too soon to say what health impacts these plastics in our own bodies are having which makes it far far too early to have any confidence that there are none.
Personally it seems far more likely to me that globally observed health issues are caused by the proliferation of chemicals in everyday life that we know are definitely toxic. So IMHO an excellent plastic to blame if you need one is e.g. PVC (and also PTFE because OH BOY WHAT A SMART IDEA TO PUT THAT SHIT ON PANS WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG I HAVE NO IDEA).
(This part made me laugh a little: "Microplastics are plastic fragments less than 5 millimeters in diameter, or about 0.2 inches, barely visible to the human eye. ")
The underlying argument you were responding to wasn’t really greenhouse gas focused. The discussion was mostly about plastic waste in the oceans and our environment. While it is possible the greenhouse gas budget is better with plastic, this doesn’t address the problem of accumulating forever waste within our environment.
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The graph I linked to was encompassing a wide variety of environmental impact https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental...
If you just want greenhouse gas emission, this is the one https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-comparisons-g... which interestingly show worse impact for single-use plastic bags
I've always run on the gut assumption that they must be putting the worst apples that still look appealing into those packages.
I sometimes collect these codes on my hand and just put all the Vegs in a cloth bag.
For me, it’s the packaging. Japan is a great example of this.
Think of a banana, or an orange. Perfect package right? Now wrap them in plastic. Then when you buy them, they’re placed in a plastic bag. Sometimes each individual banana is wrapped individually... with plastic.
That’s Japan. That’s a lot of Asian countries, in fact.
It probably costs them more. Charge less than your costs and you go bust.
Source : https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go-outside/united-states-c...
My wife and I have tried to minimize waste. We generally buy used, etc. We have also tried to buy mostly non-plastic toys. But man, is it an uphill battle.
People just love to give us random stuff. For example, my dad rants about “Cheap Chinese crap”, but then turns around and buys my kids “Cheap Chinese crap” even after I’ve made it clear that I want less clutter in our lives.
There is a constant pressure on American parents to give their kids toys / experiences / entertainment. It comes from observing the frenetic activity of other parents, from targeted ads, from everywhere. But the fact is, kids just need to have a childhood. They don’t need their days stuffed with scheduled activities, the latest toys, etc. Just idle time, imagination, and quality attention from loving parents (Just a little attention everyday goes a long way.)
/rant
Anyway, advice on how to exit the American way is very much welcome.
We've made a big deal about giving the kids "experience gifts".
Sometimes it's lessons (my daughter got a week at a horseback riding camp, my son got dirt bike lessons). Sometimes it's a trip (we've taken the kids on 3 separate cross-country road trips with tons of stops at national parks). Sometimes it's a pass to a water park or minigolf place. The kids get involved in the experience they want, so they're emotionally invested and it doesn't feel forced for them. The only rule really is that the thing can't be about electronics (i.e. no going to a video arcade).
Once we established that, we asked that grandparents do the same. Usually this is each set of grandparents taking the kids for a week or more in the summer, but they get creative sometimes.
It's been four years and the kids are much happier with this than the random junk, and have said so.
I have a toddler, and she has likely has 50x the number of toys, but 99% of them are recycled gifts that were handed off to us, or obtained through groups like our local BuyNothing, or from neighbors. Her book collection of children's books, and sing-along books is pretty astounding, but we didn't buy a single one.
Much of our toddler clothes, and baby clothes was likewise donated to us from local families that outgrew them, as fast growing children can wear smaller sizes for just a few months. When all of our kids have outgrown them, we plan on sharing them likewise.
Rather than rich countries with citizens living the most resource intensive lifestyles possible judging people in poverty for not having better than first world waste treatment.
Other countries might not have much better packaging policies, but if you want a war on plastic waste, US and Europe are some of best places to start it.
1: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/china-failed-to-buy-agreed-a...
I do. So do many others. Moreover people want what is pushed on them (aka marketing/public relations works).
> Plastics didn't need to push disposables that hard
Funny because they did push them hard. Tough to say how things would have gone if they hadn’t.
> they were already better.
Better in some ways, worse in others. At first it may have seemed like a good idea, but at this point we need to find ways to reduce plastic use.
Edit: Just expanding on glass jars - I started saving all of my glass jars about a year ago. My shelf of jars is overflowing now, and they have many uses. I use peanut butter jars to hold my daily smoothie. I make candles with the jam jars.
We know the plastics industry pushed disposable products hard. And to me it speaks to a broader problem with US business logic - lie cheat and steal at any cost and that is "good" for society. There may be unseemly actions down the waste stream but we are responsible for the culture that produces so much trash.