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Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by xvector on Monday August 02, 2021 @05:19AM (#28034525)
Maybe it's just me, but the integration of my Apple ecosystem makes each device feel generations ahead of my Windows/Linux devices. The whole UX flow is just so damn smooth and convenient, from AirPlay to controlling my smart home. I can't imagine doing this with non-Apple devices.

Apple does not even have to be the best at everything, or even particularly great at everything. What they need to do is be good at integrating everything, which they are.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by sbarre on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:23AM (#28035635)
I used to think like you.. Then Apple took away my ability to fully control network traffic on my computer. Before that they took away my ability to upgrade storage and RAM. And even before that, there were always sacrifices to be made to get the Apple experience.

So yes the UX is great (I would not say amazing) and when the integration exists, the experience is almost always fantastic..

But I've always felt like it has come with trade-offs, and in recent years Apple has moved the balance enough that I no longer believe the trade-offs are worth it for me, at least when it comes to my daily driver computer.

I moved back to Windows (+Linux thanks to WSL2) in 2020 - after being a Mac-first user for almost 15 years - and am very happy with my choice.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by ricardobeat on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:44AM (#28036398)
You can imagine that controlling network traffic or upgrading RAM are not abilities that the vast majority of people are concerned about, even in tech.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by quelsolaar on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:28AM (#28036954)
Thats the thing, most people don't need those particular things. But a lot of people need something very particular that very few others need. The problem is not that apple doesn't support a particular use case, but that they cant support all niche cases.

Microsoft / Linux doesn't do everything, but if you need something specific you can bet that there is someone out there that provides that functionality for those platforms.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by sbarre on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:56PM (#28044214)
Of course it's not a concern for all users, definitely the network one, but I think you're underestimating how commonplace RAM upgrades are.

In my own circles (so anecdotally) I've had plenty of conversations over the last 20+ years about helping tech and non-tech people upgrade RAM on their computers, including laptops.. And in the last 5 years I've heard plenty of people be surprised (and bummed) that they can't upgrade the RAM on their Macs post-purchase anymore.

And of course maxing out the RAM at purchase time is a complete rip-off compared to market prices.

Every Mac I've owned (5 machines across desktops/laptops from 2006 through to 2016 I think), I eventually upgraded the RAM myself via aftermarket parts at reasonable market rates and it greatly extended the life of the computer.

Given the premium cost you already pay for a Mac, not being able to do this anymore is a deal breaker, for me at least.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by unethical_ban on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:37AM (#28037072)
They're concerned about it, but non-technical people get hooked on the familiar. They often don't want to learn a new UI when they know one already.

I have a friend who has a 2015-ish Macbook with 4GB RAM - and she is getting into Photoshop.

So her computer works well for her. The monitor is good enough, the CPU is good, and so on. 4GB just won't cut it.

Since she can't upgrade her RAM for $150 like she should, she has to get a new computer. But she likes the trackpad and the Apple UI so much, she is going to get an iMac with 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD for $1600, instead of a Windows PC with a top-line processor, 32GB RAM, 27" screen and 1TB+ of SSD.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by motioncuty on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:54AM (#28038303)
The retina screen alone would cost $400+ for a windows. And the Mac is much more of a pro tool when doing creative work. My windows machines always crash on me.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by stjohnswarts on Monday August 02, 2021 @01:18PM (#28039594)
I haven't had windows crash on me when I wasn't doing driver stuff in literally years. Something is wrong with your hardware, unless you're talking about the software that you are using on windows. If those crash it's not windows fault it's just bad programming.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by ricardobeat on Monday August 02, 2021 @02:48PM (#28040997)
If that’s the case you are the lucky one. It’s surely not a coincidence that Windows software suffers from “bad programming” 50x more often.

There is simply no contest in reliability, you’re always expecting a new problem with windows - just yesterday, in fact, an OS update disabled my network card and I had to reinstall everything to “fix” it. You can use a Mac for years without even knowing what a driver is.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by jonathantf2 on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @10:16AM (#28061252)
Working in a company where I deal with equal amount of Macs an Windows, we spend a lot more time dealing with Mac issues that simply cannot be solved due to either hardware or software limitations Apple have put in place.

Windows is very solid and we rarely see issues with it on decent hardware which still costs 1/2 of what a lower spec Mac equivalent.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by watermelon0 on Monday August 02, 2021 @03:32PM (#28041533)
I use both macOS and Windows daily, and I think I saw like one BSOD in the last year, and quite a lot more kernel panics on macOS.

Regarding the software I use, I wouldn't say that it's any more stable on macOS than on Windows.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by gopher_space on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:18AM (#28037720)
If you want to do mouse-intensive work on a laptop the mac trackpad is the only way to go.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by theshadowknows on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:28PM (#28044759)
I spent several minutes trying to get my AirPods to connect to my phone today instead of my iPad. Ended up being late for a call because of it. Happens a few times a week. More than irritating. First world problem, to be sure. But still the whole “it just works” line irks me no end.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by xvector on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @02:00AM (#28046115)
Sounds like a problem with your AirPods or your iPad's saved Bluetooth device settings.

I've literally never had a problem for years. Switching is seamless. I don't even have to manually switch, it happens automagically. Same for everyone I know with AirPods.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by wesleyfsmith on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:23AM (#28036184)
This is exactly how I feel too...
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by underwater on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:59AM (#28035476)
That's the very reason I stay on the fringes of the Apple ecosystem. The approach of an Apple branded version of everything means that if you don't want exactly what they give you then you have a terrible time. You're either all in or all out.

I don't consider myself overly dogmatic about controlling my devices or data but the thought of going all in on one tech company for my gadgets for the next decade or so is both gross and, to be honest, really boring. I don't see how I could get excited about tech when the only choice I get is what colour it is (or the storage space).

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by matt_s on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:23AM (#28036183)
Really boring is how I want my phone to behave: secure and boring. The fact they have a watch that works seamlessly also helps.

I don’t think of these things as gadgets anymore. In the past I’ve built a Linux DVR - so I know how to tinker and find it fun for certain things but not things I depend on and want to behave like appliances. I don’t tinker with my refrigerator or my automobile either.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by salamandersauce on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:21AM (#28036872)
I would describe modern Android as boring and not require tinkering either. Secure is tougher and up to the OEM to keep up with patches.

Certain things with iOS are just overly difficult like getting files on or off or trying to add new music to the music app without a PC.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by stjohnswarts on Monday August 02, 2021 @01:22PM (#28039664)
Android is extremely secure if you don't put a bunch of relatively unknown apps on it and don't root it. I would say on par with iphone easily. I only pick iphone because they do a much better job of keeping apps and such from spying on you. Also android is constantly updating the google mothership on your location and habits.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by mastrsushi on Monday August 02, 2021 @06:01PM (#28043261)
You don’t think Apple does any surveillance and sell to companies? They don’t reject apps that spy, just the ones that do without a benefit to them.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by quelsolaar on Monday August 02, 2021 @05:32AM (#28034590)
You are right. If you do mainstream things and stay within their products it works great. The thing is that what is bleeding edge today is mainstream tomorrow. The worlds brain trust is moving away from Apple, and if Apple wants to keep up they cant rely on anyone else to help them.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by toxik on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:18AM (#28035217)
> The worlds brain trust is moving away from Apple

Not really, the M1 is a smashing success with most techies. People seem to like the phones too. The watches are doing really well too. Oh, and the tablets are really popular also. Even with techies.

There seems to be a group of people sworn never to be corrupted by the evil Apple and their evil ways. I first saw it on /., and the same group has been ringing out death knells for Apple ever since.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by blacktriangle on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:06AM (#28035988)
I don't think people are leaving Apple hardware, but I would say they are leaving/no longer entering Apple's software stack. Native Mac dev is plummiting, native iOS dev has probably peaked by now. I see less enthusiasm jumping on new Apple features and protocols that come out every year than I used to.

It feels similar to the end of MS's domiance. They were always profitable and had huge marketshare, but just because everybody was running Windows, that didn't mean they were really embracing the full MS ecosystem. Apple feels that way today.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by stjohnswarts on Monday August 02, 2021 @01:29PM (#28039779)
people have been predicting the end of Apple for 25 years. I've been there the whole time and have heard it all before.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by blacktriangle on Monday August 02, 2021 @02:35PM (#28040818)
I'm not saying its the end of Apple. There was no end of IBM or MS either, in fact while both companies were losing developer mindshare they were making record profits.

I'm talking about a much more nebulous concept of a company as a thought leader, one that people follow. There was a time when the rumor of MS entering a market would cause competition to shut down. Now nobody blinks an eye when MS ships an actual product that competes with them.

And in that regard, I think we're seeing the end of Apple's role as a technologically interesting company (at least wrt software). For example it used to be pretty much only Apple and a few exclusive MacOS developers who actually cared about design. Now designing thinking has gone mainstream all while Apple seems to be busy ignoring everything from their classic HIG.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by aphroz on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:34AM (#28035313)
I don't know if I live in another world but I rarely see an Apple Watch or an iPad (not anymore). I've seen maybe 5 Apple watches in my life between Europe and Asia.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by skohan on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:47AM (#28035391)
I live in Europe and it's been the exact opposite. Apple watches used to seem like a novelty, but now like half the people in my social circle have one.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by pentae on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:08AM (#28035543)
This is also true in developing Asia. I'm in Thailand and although you won't see many Thai people wearing them they all know what they are and almost all of them would like to own one if they weren't considered such an extravagant expense. Apple watch is basically a luxury item and so that means that as these other countries start to become more wealthy it's just more growth for Apple as more people start being able to afford it.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by aphroz on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:53AM (#28037251)
I am not saying they don't want it but I don't see it often. It is of course a luxury item, but while I see that people buy an iPhone for their social status, they probably can't afford both. And it probably comes lower in the list of social status/usage ratio as a golden watch could replace an Apple watch, but not an iPhone.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by dagw on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:53AM (#28037262)
I live in Sweden, it feels like every third person I see wearing a watch is wearing an Apple watch. It is by far the single most common watch brand I see.

Same with iPads. By far the most common brand of large screen device I see. Outside of office environments I see more iPads than laptops, and even in office environments I'm seeing more iPads today than even just 3 years ago.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by toxik on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:48AM (#28035396)
Maybe smart watches are not super common in general. Actually, even wristwatches are rare to see. But, among those that do wear smart watches, it's often the Apple products IME.

iPads are doing exceptionally well, I'm surprised you are unaware. They're replacing laptops for a lot of users, especially those that did not grow up around PCs. It's just that you won't often see them in public.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by bregma on Monday August 02, 2021 @07:59AM (#28035474)
Apple is small potatoes outside of the USA. There is a world beyond the Valley and it's orders of magnitude larger.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by inglor_cz on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:56AM (#28035892)
I wish I had such "small potatoes" growing in my backyard ...

Apple has a significant presence in Central Europe. Not overwhelming one, American market is obviously a stronger one. It might have something to do with purchasing power parity, which is still not that good behind the former Iron Curtain. But it is a big player here, especially in the richer demographics.

I have never used any Apple products, but I am tempted. People will sing paeans about how their gadgets just work and interact together. I am more of a tinkering-hacking type, so I do not really mind delving deep into my Windows or Linux installation, but Android messes with me sometimes.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by coffeeling on Monday August 02, 2021 @04:59PM (#28042565)
One thing about those small potatoes though: They buy software. You can actually get paid for apps on iOS way easier than Android, and it shows.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by dagmx on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @02:07AM (#28046147)
The Apple watch is the number one selling watch (not even just smart watch).

There's definitely a huge market of people buying it.

Whenever I go out in major cities in the US, Canada or the UK, I'll always see someone with it

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by BizarroLand on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @12:05PM (#28050868)
I have quite a few apple products but none of them new. My problem with Apple is the price. My opinion is that there is always a less expensive & just as capable alternative to anything Apple has to offer, so for my use case it doesn't make sense to pay more.

The Apple products I do have were either broken and given or sold to me to repair or found at thrift shops and pawn shops for deep discounts, and they are all going up for sale soon to recoup my expenses.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by ethbr0 on Monday August 02, 2021 @06:24AM (#28034883)
That's the Nintendo problem: how do you create a platform, when your first party solutions are incredibly well-executed?

You need third parties (sort of) for scaling and long tail reasons, but it's always an uneasy relationship.

If you don't expand enough, or the market doesn't generate a solution, your platform has a gap. If you expand too much, third party developers feel burned and desert your platform.

Microsoft solved this by clearly staking its monetized territory ("the office suite"), and not really expanding in other directions (after those weird 90s attempts).

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by quelsolaar on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:07AM (#28036004)
Thats a great example. I love Nintendo. Mario and Zelda is always great, but historically Nintendo has not been a good platform for 3rd party developers (I read somewhere that 30% of wii owners didn't know you could take out wii sports and replace it with another game...). The bets that Nintendo has made that hasn't been smash hits, have been terrible failures, because no one else is there to pick up the slack.

If you buy an X-Box, and the next Halo turns out to suck, you are still going to get your moneys worth of 3rd party titles.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by coffeeling on Monday August 02, 2021 @05:10PM (#28042686)
There's a big difference between the two in business model: Sony and MS had to care about attach rates and third party software sales, because they (at least initially) took a loss with each console sold: The only way they could make money was if people bought a bunch of software so they'd get licensing revenues.

The Wii was designed with different assumptions in mind, which led to a lean machine they could sell at a profit. Someone buying and Xbox and Gears of War was a huge problem for Microsoft, if someone bought a Wii and Mario Kart, it was just fine for Nintendo as long as the customer was happy: Every sale was profit, plain and simple.

I don't know about the Wii not being good for 3rd parties either, it's more that the Wii didn't do what the 3rd parties wanted to do (high tech edgelord games). So we got completely moronic things like a Castlevania fighting game, a Soul Calibur that wasn't a fighting game. How about Dead Space, a slow, ponderous horror title? Yeah, the devs turned it into a rail shooter, just about the most anti-horror genre choice imaginable.

In simple terms, they thought the Wii userbase were morons who would lap up anything - after all, they'd bought a motion control toaster to play technically really simplistic titles, and in the devs' world, technically simplistic = bad. So they gave people disrespectful shovelware, which, surprise surprise, bombed.

They had the opportunity to make solid titles - the Wii may have been a toaster, but it was still beefier than the PS2 or Gamecube which had a lot of really good titles and anyone who's played Metroid Prime knows those controls are crack.

I think the big miss with the Wii wasn't how good/bad it was, but communication. What was the philosophy behind the machine, Nintendo communicating that, the devs really trying to understand that.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by blacktriangle on Monday August 02, 2021 @02:43PM (#28040927)
The Nintendo comparison is missing some nuance as well. Nintendo was a gaming company that got caught in a war between the two giants Sony and MS for total control of the living room. For Sony and MS, gaming was just a single division that they were willing to take losses on or invest heavily then wait years for payback due to the consoles filling multiple strategic objectives. MS and Sony dumped tons of cash into developing their 3rd party game libraries where Nintendo relied on their in-house development to seed their consoles with games and make most of their money.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by marban on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:17AM (#28035595)
Plus, show me another (mobile) device maker that still provides major OS updates after 5+ years.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by judge2020 on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:26AM (#28035648)
Seriously. iOS 15 supports the 6s, released in 2015, and it’ll work fine assuming you put new batteries in it as the battery degrades.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by gbrown on Monday August 02, 2021 @08:52AM (#28035841)
That’s why I finally switched to iOS for my phone, and iPhones are quite affordable if you buy used a few generations old. Nevertheless, I couldn’t go back to OSX after years of using primarily Linux.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by thedougd on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:31AM (#28036990)
I agree this is important for security updates. However, Android is not monolothic. Browser, carrier services, even the phone app are updated independently of the operating system image for well into the future.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by fsflover on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:26AM (#28037851)
https://fairphone.com

Also GNU/Linux phones running mainline Linux kernel (but they don't exist for 5 years yet).

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by JamesSwift on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:10AM (#28036028)
This is ultimately why I switched from android to ios. The new SE at < $200 was also a factor.
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by lotsofpulp on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:44AM (#28037155)
The SE is $400 for 64GB, $450 for 128GB, and $550 for 256GB.

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by JamesSwift on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:59AM (#28038384)
Theres actually a deal with walmart for verizon/AT&T customers that you can get it for... $175ish I believe now? It was $200 when I did it.

EDIT: its $149 currently https://www.walmart.com/ip/Verizon-Apple-iPhone-SE-2020-64GB...

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by thekyle on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:50AM (#28037214)
Yes, but you can easily find it for less than that. Here is one for $282 on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B088NQXD8T

I'm sure you could find even better deals on eBay.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by salamandersauce on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:18AM (#28036832)
It ain't. It's also far easier to integrate everything when you control everything. My current Samsung tablet and phone have the same levels of integration as my iPad/iPhone did. They can share calls, texts, pass files etc. Windows does a good job integrating with my phone too.

Smarthome is one place Apple fell down. I tried to add my hue lights and instead of just automatically finding the hub like Amazon and Google I was supposed to take a picture of a sticker? Could never get it to work. They also took far too long getting an affordable voice speaker for the home out. I'm not digging my phone out every time either.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by Abishek_Muthian on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:10AM (#28036034)
> from AirPlay to controlling my smart home. I can't imagine doing this with non-Apple devices

That's because many smart home devices are only supporting the duopoly OOB due to their market prominence, indeed both Apple & Google are doing something good enough to retain their *poly position.

If the smart home devices have open API, then there's no reason for it to work great with anything else. A case in point, put KDEConnect on Android, Linux Phone or Sailfish and you can even play the audio from your desktop browser on your phone speaker.

Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by Abishek_Muthian on Monday August 02, 2021 @11:23AM (#28037803)
>then there's no reason for it to *not work great with anything else
Re:Apple is now an antifragile company by jorvi on Monday August 02, 2021 @09:32AM (#28036276)
> from AirPlay

It’s funny that you take AirPlay as an example. I would have agreed with most other things, but AirPlay is light years behind stuff like Google Cast or Spotify Connect.