> how deeply associated dense, urban environments are with random violence and crime. > If I could live in an environment like Berlin, I might consider it

You made me chuckle. Berlin is heavily associated with crime. There's multiple better and safer cities to live in Germany.

Associated I can believe, but it doesn’t feel bad to be in it.

Don’t get me wrong, when I was in a tiny quiet village in the UK I once came back from the local grocery shop to find my front door had bounced open instead of locking itself when I’d left and absolutely nothing happened as a result of this mistake, and I don’t expect the same here; and sure, Berlin has a lot of graffiti, but I don’t feel fundamentally unsafe in even the most loudly afearing places like Görlitzer Park or Alexanderplatz — I don’t even get why the latter is on the list of places people talk about when suggesting danger.

Really, the worst I experience here is the fire brigade and ambulance sirens (and, confusingly, one time where the sirens were on a van marked “Netzgesellschaft entstörungsdienst”, which both Google and my own limited German think is something close to “Network company anti-jamming service”, which feels implausible).

Netzgesellschaft Entstörungsdienst: It's an emergency service for gas leaks[1] - it may feel implausible but it's totally common in Germany to have a "Netzgesellschaft" or some other very generic name like "Wasserverband" (water organization).

1: https://www.nbb-netzgesellschaft.de/ueber-die-nbb/entstoerun...

Thanks! :)

(What felt implausible was my translation rather than anything else, and indeed you showed that it was an error on my part).

>> Berlin is heavily associated with crime

Can't find 2020 numbers, but all of Germany had 720 murders in 2019. Last year Chicago, which is the main city in one metro area of one state in the US had 774.

Chicago is around 2.5 million people, Germany is 84 million people. From an inner-city US perspective, violent crime in Germany basically does not exist.

I assume people are worried about more than just murder?

I know I am. Murder is a good proxy for other violent crime though, since it almost always gets reported, and other violent crimes don't.

>deeply associated dense, urban environments are with random violence and crime

It's true that people think this, but it's not true in reality. Many people who don't live in cities believe in the 1980s TV and movie version of cities because they're afraid of anything new or diverse.

I moved from a semi rural area about 30 miles outside of Medford OR to an apartment in a reasonably nice area inside the city about 2 years ago while I am developing and building a house on a piece of property. Compared to the area that I moved from and will be moving back to the level of random violence and crime in this area is much worse and completely offsets any other benefits such as being close to work, city infrastructure (water sewer power and fast internet) and easier access to shopping and dining. Crime and violence thrives in densely populated areas because there is more opportunities for such per square mile. So yeah people think this because unless you live in a dream world that’s reality.

Yeah I’ve lived in a few neighborhoods where e.g. I heard gunfire from time to time, had my car broken into.

Living there was gentrification and leaving was flight… kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place.

This is strange to me. I have lived in big cities for my adult life (San Francisco and Los Angeles), and I have never experienced any crime.

The thing to look for is evidence of protections against crime - barred windows and high walls, locked garages vs street parking, hotels and businesses with security vs everything just open, having to get a key for the bathroom vs it just being there, etc.

It’s like COVID-19- there’s no use in pretending it doesn’t exist because I nor anyone I know well has had it.

You do wonder about all these walled communities in places like Richardson and Plano, TX. What are they defending against? When you walk around the area there was no evidence of crime or disorderly behaviour, yet they still had that strange architecture. So what are they defending against?

Outsiders. They don’t want anyone wandering around.

Not saying either side's sweeping statement is correct, but "if it hasn't happened to me, its not a problem" mentality is less than productive.

Sure, but the person I responded to was giving an anecdote, so I responded with one.

> the level of random violence and crime in this area is much worse

Have you actually experienced any of this random violence and crime? Or does the city just have more news coverage.

Yes. Aside from what I consider nuisance encounters I was walking my dog by my apartment one evening and I had a very close encounter with someone who was vandalizing a neighbors vehicle. I was able to get enough video evidence of the act in progress to assist the Police with identifying and charge the perp. I had to testify in Grand Jury for my troubles.