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Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by daenz on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:12PM (#27805613)
>All in-game shutters like the one from when you kill a zombie are fixed because Capcom DRM’s entry points are patched out so most of their functions are never executed anymore.

Can someone knowledgeable explain why DRM functions would be called on every zombie kill? I guess I don't have a good understanding on how these DRM checks are implemented in games in general.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by GuB-42 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:47PM (#27806100)
DRM calls are sprinkled everywhere inside the code, usually statically linked or even inlined. This is to make it harder for crackers to identify them.

Here they put some in the zombie kill routine, but I don't think there is anything special about zombie kills. It could have been anything: picked up ammo, loading a map, pass a certain event, on a timer, during a save, all of the above, etc...

I don't have a deep knowledge about the technology involved but from what I've seen modern DRM like Denuvo are based on virtual machines and are very flexible, allowing all sorts of checks at many points. Done well, there is little overhead, but some overzealous publishers do frequent lengthy checks, killing performance.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:36PM (#27812077)
If there is little overhead, then the game is cracked easily as the checks are rare and easily found.

For the DRM to hold up the checks need to be frequent, hard to pin down and in practice that means in performance critical, complex code that can behave in unexpected ways.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by unnouinceput on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:41PM (#27806742)
Quote:"...but some overzealous publishers do frequent lengthy checks..."

Since when do publishers have access to source code to do those checks themselves? Developers do that. And yes, I am aware that in this particular case, for RE:Village, the developer and publisher are the same.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by feoren on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:06AM (#27806946)
I would think it very odd if publishers were not given the source code. If you were a publisher, would you want some small shop to be able to disappear off the face of the Earth, preventing you from ever doing even simple ports and patches?
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by dharmab on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:42AM (#27807113)
That actually happens a lot. Mass Effect Legendary Edition is missing a DLC because the source code was lost. Many of Square Enix's hit games like the PS1 Final Fantasy games and the PS2 Kingdom Hearts have lost the original source code and the modern ports are either based on PC ports or are rebuilt from the shipped assets.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by speeder on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:51AM (#27807465)
Also I have a very strong impression Legend of Mana for PC is... emulated.

It has the same slowndowns it used to have on PSX, but somehow, worse, the game runs quite poorly during combat, stuttering when there is any new sprite on the screen.

I think they lost the source code, and made an emulator just f or this game, to allow them to shove the new "remastered" assets in (the remastered assets are just AI-processed backgrounds... quite poorly sometimes even, for example in one screen something that is clearly some grass near a fountain on PS1 became a green smudge on PC).

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by SahAssar on Monday July 12, 2021 @07:56AM (#27809375)
Neither of those examples have anything to do with if a publisher was given access to the source. Those seem to be more about those games being developed in a time when source control and backups were handled more loosely within the industry as a whole.

And that does not only apply to games, certain parts of MS office do not have source available anymore so MS has done binary patches to fix bugs, pixar almost lost part of a movie but an employee happened to have a offsite copy at their home.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by josefx on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:12AM (#27807577)
EA released a remastered C&C some time ago. One of the developers involved in that described the problems they had with the video quality, the originals where lost, the best they could do was extract videos from the PlayStation port and try different AI up scaling algorithms. The result isn't pretty.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by alpaca128 on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:13AM (#27807864)
The best they could do is recreate and rerender the videos, but that's probably too costly for EA's typical remaster project.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by formerly_proven on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:25AM (#27807929)
A lot of the videos in C&C were live action
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by ipsi on Monday July 12, 2021 @06:16AM (#27808817)
Which would almost certainly have required different actors, given the 25 years since the original release, and I imagine that would have cause a huge uproar in addition to being fairly expensive.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by josefx on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:29AM (#27807952)
That was probably well out of scope of what they originally planned for as C&C had quite a lot of pre and post mission videos.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by thaumasiotes on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:03AM (#27809411)
Out of scope, sure, but I agree that that option prevents "extract old video from the production version and try to upscale it automatically" from qualifying as "the best they could do".
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by ChoGGi on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:33AM (#27809588)
"Best they could do" on the budget from EA.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by thaumasiotes on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:36AM (#27809604)
Sure, that's fair.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by Negitivefrags on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:02AM (#27807530)
Depending on the contract, publishers might have the ability to get a copy of the source code, but they certainly are not going to be monkeying around with it.

Doing a full build from scratch of a game is a complicated thing. The build systems at a game studios are quite extensive.

Even if you were given access to the version control repositories for a game I think it would probably take you quite a long time to be able to successfully export and build everything from scratch.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by miggol on Monday July 12, 2021 @09:45AM (#27810189)
I imagine the DRM is contracted out to a company which the publisher uses for more of their games. The DRM guy or gal comes in a couple days around the end of development, imports some libraries, and sprinkles some function calls here and there. There either isn't the knowledge/time/co-operation to optimize it, or the actual devs are told to stay well away from the DRM stuff to avoid messing something up and causing piracy false positives.

Not that I'm in the know, but it seems likely that publishers can get code into the binary one way or the other.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by unnouinceput on Monday July 12, 2021 @10:32AM (#27810676)
The DRM in this case, Denuvo, is a framework. One that is very finicky to work with and it has a gazzilion of different API's which are variants of same basic thing, but when compiled it goes into different code machine. Also, strictly speaking, is not the programmers that embed Denuvo in the game, is the level designers. They are the one who select where in the game the checks are made.

And crackers, until they don't get to that point in game, they have no idea that what's ahead is legit game code or just another Denuvo trap to trigger something (game crash, patch previous cracked portion of game, corrupt saves, etc etc - the possibilities to fuck with the cracker are limited only by imagination). That's why cracking takes time when it comes to Denuvo, because is a tedious step-by-step dissembling boring job.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by SV_BubbleTime on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:31PM (#27806669)
> Done well, there is little overhead, but some overzealous publishers do frequent lengthy checks, killing performance.

I can imagine disaster if someone inlines the wrong function here. Definitely something that shouldn’t make it out the door, but amazing the difference 6 letters could make.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by wallscratch on Monday July 12, 2021 @12:37AM (#27807094)
Why can inlining functions cause disasters? Just instruction cache misses, or other things as well?
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by birdyrooster on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:20PM (#27805651)
My guess is they want intermittent checks, but don't trust the system clock to advance, but a zombie kill is evidence that time has advanced for the player. Seems like it shouldn't block the main game thread and there should be a longer time to live for that check, and maybe those are the bugs.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by daenz on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:07PM (#27805876)
Do some cracks rely on preventing the system clock from advancing?
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by arcticbull on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:29PM (#27805993)
Generally in a software system you can't count on a time source to move forward, to move in consistent intervals, or to move at all. In a system that is designed to be resistant to attack, it actually makes a lot of sense to instead rely on a desirable event critical to progression. Especially one that occurs relatively infrequently and is likely associated with a lot of other complex calculations.

I think this is pretty smart.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by daenz on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:41PM (#27806060)
I think I understand the theory. If I was a cracker though, I would think that patching out the system clock calls (in order to prevent DRM checks) would have a lot of game-breaking unintended side-effects (animations, other time-based mechanics, etc). And if that was the case, it would be a perfect place to trigger the DRM calls, since a cracker couldn't patch the system time calls without breaking the game.

tehbeard (another comment in this thread) makes a point that maybe not attaching the DRM calls to the clock makes it easier to hide them, since a cracker would probably be looking for a time-based trigger.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by dognotdog on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:23PM (#27806619)
A game’s animation and other in-game timing functions are very unlikely to be based on wall-time, instead typically relying on monotonic counters that are higher resolution, less overhead, and not potentially adjusted backwards or forwards while the game is running. Thus, disabling wall-time accesses for a crack should have little influence on game timing and animations.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by daenz on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:32PM (#27806685)
That makes sense to use monotonic counters for game mechanics. I think the point still stands in that case though: if the DRM calls were tied to the same time source as the animation system, you couldn't patch one without breaking the other.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by robertlagrant on Monday July 12, 2021 @07:24AM (#27809175)
That's assuming you couldn't selectively patch the calls, but yes, sounds as though it would be harder.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by pdpi on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:48PM (#27806793)
> Generally in a software system you can't count on a time source to move forward, to move in consistent intervals, or to move at all.

By way of illustrating this point: C++ has std::chrono::system_clock, std::chrono::steady_clock, and std::clock, all of which give different guarantees on how the clock behaves.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by tehbeard on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:26PM (#27805980)
More that the function calls for the system clock are fairly easy to trace back to find these DRM hooks.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by ip26 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:21PM (#27805958)
I’m not a cracker but messing with the system clock is a classic exploit for all kinds of things.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by neom on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:26PM (#27806295)
In the late 90s early 2000s for some stuff you didn't need cracks, you could often literally just set the system clock back to 1990.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by Scoundreller on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:11AM (#27807239)
If there was a free trial, yes.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by NickNameNick on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:36PM (#27805717)
If the DRM code was cleanly separated from the normal flow of the game code, it would be trivial for crackers to patch it out.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by briga on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:47PM (#27805771)
Evidently it's still trivial for crackers to patch it out
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by 22c on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:43PM (#27806074)
I wouldn't say it's trivial. EMPRESS is one of the most talented crackers on the scene at the moment and it took ~2 months for this release.

Arguably, without EMPRESS, the crack would have taken a lot longer.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by skhr0680 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:33PM (#27806331)
I think publishers should be happy with that. Every day a crack doesn’t come out is one more teenager who is hyped about latest game who will buy it.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by paxys on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:08PM (#27806524)
Yeah, a lot of publishers voluntarily remove DRM from their games after a few months because most of the profit is made right at launch. Once the first round of discounts start to hit DRM serves no purpose anymore.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by wernerb on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:36AM (#27807704)
It's even better! You sign a contract with denuvo for how many days protection. The less days the less you pay. When the contract is up they remove it
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by haswell on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:31PM (#27806674)
I have never heard of this. Do you have any examples?
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by paxys on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:52PM (#27806831)
Search for "Denuvo removed" on Google. Lots of recent examples.

Doom Eternal & Metro Exodus – https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-05-29-denuvo-sec...

Monster Hunter World – https://www.vg247.com/2021/06/03/monster-hunter-world-denuvo...

Mass Effect Legendary Edition – https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/mass-effect-legendary-e...

Nier Automata – https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/nier-automata-update-re...

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by teamspirit on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:37AM (#27807385)
Capcom themselves did it with the rerelease of RE2 and RE3
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by Rapzid on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:59AM (#27809773)
Steam wish list. Pick it up for $15 and get a better experience with the DRM removed. Thanks Capcom!
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by thaumasiotes on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:26AM (#27809538)
> Every day a crack doesn’t come out is one more teenager who is hyped about latest game who will buy it.

Taken literally, that's all of ~60 additional copies sold!

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by Operyl on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:11PM (#27806210)
Publishers put this DRM in place only as a short-term measure, removing it within a year in almost all cases after the majority of their sales are well gone. They do this in the hope to convincing people who might pirate the game to ultimately purchase it, which I'm assuming must work to some extent or they wouldn't pay the rather high costs of Denuvo, etc. (and I'm willing to bet their sales data probably supported this theory).
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by skhr0680 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:39PM (#27806365)
1. People who want to play the game online or are hyped and preorder it

2. People who want to play the game immediately and can’t wait, but will download it for free if they can

3. People who want to play it but are happy to wait for a sale

4. People who will never buy the game, but will play a cracked version

Group 2 is pretty huge, and includes age groups who care a lot about cosmetic items online (teenagers-20s)

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by josephcsible on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:45PM (#27806397)
I'm under the impression that the group of people who if they can pirate something, will do so and never buy it, but if they can't, will just buy it, is quite small indeed.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by MrStonedOne on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:11PM (#27806540)
Every time it comes out that a pirate version fixes things broken in the mainline version, esp if drm is what broke it, I slide more firmly into always pirate category.

meaningful online service is the only thing that drives me to buy AAA games now and days, and most don't even have that.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by josephcsible on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:28PM (#27806652)
Do people in the "always pirate category" buy games that they can't pirate, though? Or do they just skip those games and play different ones instead?
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by na85 on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:58PM (#27806884)
That describes me. I pirated lots of games when I was still into gaming. I bought Tribes 2, for example, because of course you can't pirate it if you want to play online (and it's a multiplayer-only shooter). Same for e.g. PUBG and one or two others.

Steam is a great thing for anti-piracy; 99% of the time it works without any friction and is faster/safer than piracy.

On the other hand I've only played the original Call of Duty and BF1942, and have neither paid for nor pirated any of the sequels of either. Frankly most AAA games actually really suck.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by tpxl on Monday July 12, 2021 @08:03AM (#27809413)
I generally won't buy single player games I can't pirate. The reason for this is they either have some online only bullshit, which is unacceptable in a single player game, or some DRM performance degrading virus.

The only game I pirated in the last 10 or so years was Metro Exodus because it was removed from the Steam store just before launch.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by blooalien on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @12:47PM (#27823184)
> The only game I pirated in the last 10 or so years was Metro Exodus because it was removed from the Steam store just before launch.

I waited until I could buy it for ridiculously dirt cheap on sale (literally a tiny fraction of full asking price) because their actions at launch destroyed my willingness to pay full price. Had they done things differently, they easily could have had me as a happy full price purchaser.

Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by daenz on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:52PM (#27805804)
Interesting, does this mean DRM functions are forced inline when compiled?
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by nonpolitical on Sunday July 11, 2021 @09:46PM (#27806093)
Not just that. I'm not an expert, but from what I read, some DRMs will encrypt assets and critical game logic and let them be decrypted in real time on a virtual machine so that they aren't directly extractable from memory.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by unnouinceput on Sunday July 11, 2021 @11:49PM (#27806800)
Once is in memory, encrypted or not, it can be extracted, inspected and replaced (which is what a launcher crack style does).
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by brobinson on Monday July 12, 2021 @01:01AM (#27807204)
Yes, but figuring this out can still take a long time. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory survived for over 400 days before being cracked.
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by asgeir on Monday July 12, 2021 @06:13AM (#27808804)
It can be useful to break the game in subtle ways so that the crackers have a harder time knowing when the crack is fully done. https://www.nag.co.za/2013/10/23/the-5-biggest-and-most-awes...
Re:Resident Evil Village crack completely fixes its stutteri... by alabamacadabra on Sunday July 11, 2021 @08:15PM (#27805627)
Probably a possible “checkpoint” from Denuvo or similar DRM manufacturers. One would define an “event” for the DRM to trigger. Sometimes it’s starting the game, starting a New Game, loading game/saving game, and so on. Perhaps Capcom thought to (perhaps aptly?) make the check that if you kill a zombie in the zombie game, it checks if you bought the rights to do so.