Yes. The reasoning behind their statements is a a way to distract from Canadian criticisms of Chinese human rights abuses, but the political agendas behind their statements do not make them any less true.
> Maybe the church should be shouldering more of the blame here perhaps?
I see this sentiment a lot in Canada with regards to the "who should be responsible for fixing this" question. The Church bearing all the responsibility gives most Canadians the convenient out of feeling deeply uncomfortable with a core part of their identity being associated with these horrific crimes. All Canadians are Canadian, but only some Canadians are Catholic after all. The history of these events tell us that both the government and the church were heavily involved, so I don't find the question "well which entity is MORE at fault" to be particularly useful.
People are confused and want to attack anything.
Perhaps this is covid / lockdown induced.
Or that public outrage is merely the result of people being confused and punch-drunk from the psychological toll of the constant media news cycle... as opposed to an understandable reaction to the discovery of mass indigenous child graves at a residential school?
I can understand cynicism when it comes to the media but writing this off as outrage culture and essentially "fake news" seems like a bridge too far. I'm sure it's good for karma though.
The volume has been turned up to 10 and the media wants you to react. To get angry. To be controlled.
Remember George Floyd? All of that stuff is still happening but the protests have moved on. The calls to defund have changed. This social movement is stalled.. until the next cycle. But day to day injustice keeps happening.
Don't be part of the outraged mob unless you plan on being outraged for a longtime.
Doing a few 10'x10' scans with GPR (which should never be trusted without ground truthing confirmation), then extrapolating it across a football field, and getting numbers that roughly agree with previous estimates isn't a breaking news update.
That’s a problem, sure. But I find the body count rather more alarming.
If I found a plantation house with 1000's of bodies buried in the yard, and forensic evidence shows most died a violent death, in a pattern of killings that repeated itself for decades...
would you be alarmed at the body count at Arlington?
Then why are you alarmed at the body count of a overgrown cemetery "found" where it was expected to be found, and containing roughly the same number of graves expected?
Alarmed isn’t quite the right word. But it’s likely close.
> Then why are you alarmed at the body count of a overgrown cemetery "found" where it was expected to be found, and containing roughly the same number of graves expected?
I had no idea this was a thing or that any schooling system regularly buried children.
These are some of the most horrible stories that I've ever heard. It's too horrific to even be believable fiction- the fact that it all happened and that I have graves of Indigenous children all around me is just about too terrible to think about. :(
I live in Canada as an immigrant and I am constantly ashamed of this history, and how indigenous people get treated to this day. RCMP often regard indigenous people as 3rd class citizens, like full on treating folk as criminals all the time. We have all this dialog about black lives matter and the disgusting reality is no one gives a single fuck about the most beaten down minority in Canada. I live in a very white province and work with many people of colour, but not one single native Canadian. All this HR drive to up our diversity but no one gives any thought, at all, to hiring indigenous people. I don't actually agree with hiring singularly for diversity, I believe in equal opportunity though. Even so, HR is up its own ass about driving diversity but this does not encompass native ethnicities. That conversation just does not happen at any level anywhere.
This all makes me so angry. Native Canadians had their children stolen, murdered, and buried in unmarked graves and there are people on this forum excusing it as being "best intentions". Can you imagine the reaction to this if the story was of African Slaves in the 1800s? These kids were murdered as late as the 1960s. And let's not forget the land that was stolen, the culture that was all but annihilated, the lives being ripped apart to this day through drugs and alcohol which is largely seen as a criminal nuisance rather than an epidemic that continues to marginalize and shun.
I could go on. The story is so sad, so dark, and still going on and covered up to this day. And we all gloss over it and pay lip service on CBC. Where is the criminal investigation? Where are the task forces looking for all the other mass graves?
I'm so saddened and ashamed by all of this. I've often thought of leaving Canada due to this shit, I live on unceded native territory for fuck's sake.
You seem like a great person, you'd fit right in and I think you would be as drawn to these amazing people as I am. Last summer, I got to attend a really beautiful rally in front of our Legislature. The feeling there, of unity, love and craving justice was beyond almost anything I have ever experienced. Indigenous cultures are absolutely beautiful and incredibly strong, so strong that our country's system of evil couldn't wipe it out. There's something beautiful and inspiring in that.
I agree with absolutely everything you say and reading this has been an absolute privilege. Like you, I'm saddened and ashamed and I've had my own thoughts of leaving Canada. My privilege is 100% because of white supremacy. I am literally on Hacker News now because of white supremacy. That is so embarrassing and shameful that I don't know what to do other than fight or flee.
If you're interested in quite the read, read about the time the TRC requested $1.5 million from the Canadian government to search for graves. $1.5 million isn't even a rounding error in the Canadian budget - it's so insignificant it doesn't even exist. But they were denied that money. The TRC was an explicit agreement to find our missing Kookums and Mooshums (the words translate best as Grandmas/Grandpas but in a really strong Indigenous context).
Talking to people like you fills me with a tremendous amount of hope. Goodness can overcome.
Take good care and thank you. I just watched the press conference where they announced 751 bodies and I've never needed this level of positivity more. I owe you. Thank you. Honestly thank you.
There is no statute of limitations on murder so why is there no criminal investigation? Someone is responsible for all these deaths.
As for criminal charges, go grab a beverage of your choice then come back and sit down.
Did you know that we located 5,300 abusers during the TRC? And in all these years, Canada has laid charges against less than 50 people. The 5,300 people who we found were invited to testify at a compensation hearing- most refused and their records are being kept private from the police.
People say that apologizing is the Canadian trait. I think it's passing the buck. When you ask police why there haven't been charges, they blame the victims for not coming forward. But bud, put yourself in their shoes. A cop rounded you up, took you away from your parents and sent you to a residential school. How much do you trust police??? It's fucking asinine to expect that...
The TRC even operated under weird rules. If individual A accused individual B of abusing them, individual B would get to read the allegations and get individual A's name. Individual A can't get any information about their abuser.
So, I guess the answer to your question is 'we are a really shitty country'.
> I've often thought of leaving Canada due to this shit, I live on unceded native territory for fuck's sake.
And where would you go exactly?
Given every country has a history, I feel like declaring your intention to leave is hyperbolic. What country is your homeland?
Hyperbolic? I used to live in Australia and how they treated indigenous people was partly a motivation for me to leave. The racism is open and unapologetic there.
"Given every country has a history..." This is not a history, there are survivors living today. This is an issue happening right now. Children as late as the 60s were stolen, abused, and murdered. I live on unceded territory, my house is literally on stolen land. Leaving would be a monumental part of my life, I'm not going to lie, and I'd like to try and make a difference before going down that road. But it does feel rather hypocritical for me to feel this way and not stand by my principles.
This whole "it's history" argument really makes me sad. The amount of people that feel ok with this being a reason to just brush off what is happening today is a little sickening.
"I feel like declaring your intention to leave is hyperbolic" You say this as if what you "feel" has some deep insight into how I actually feel. I feel very emotional about this stuff, and I "feel" like you don't have any useful introspection into my character.
My homeland has absolutely no bearing on this conversation, I think you just want to know so you can go and unearth some sort of horror in my home nation. For the record I don't have any desire to return to where I grew up, nor do I think it's necessarily better there. However, I can guarantee that my home country does not have a suppressed indigenous population, no children buried in unmarked graves, and the land is not disputed.
If you're interested in an absolutely awful read, you can read the final report from our National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls here:
https://www.mmiwg-ffada.ca/final-report/
Indigenous people in Canada are several times more likely to live in poverty, several times more likely to find themselves imprisoned and many Indigenous communities in Canada don't even have clean drinking water. The explicit genocide is over but the system still remains.
Bob Rae, Canada's ambassador to the UN, had some good ripostes to China (and Syria):