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Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by BrissyCoder on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:00PM (#27586722)
Can't imagine working in an office again. The bathrooms, the bad food you inevitably end up eating, the hour a day lost to commute, the interruptions, having to shower and wear pants. Yuck.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by dan-robertson on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:25PM (#27586905)
On the other hand I can’t wait to get back to the office. Less work cleaning my own bathrooms or worrying about loo roll, getting reasonably nutritious good food for lunch and breakfast without needing to plan for it, 20m of exercise twice a day walking to/from work, the social interactions, being able to wear pants because the office has AC.

The above is a little tongue in cheek but also true. I think it is important to acknowledge that different people have different lives and want different things. I can certainly imagine being in a situation where I would want to work remotely.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by JimDabell on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:44PM (#27587037)
Fortunately, organisations can cater to both sets of people. Take the money you would spend on an office and provide a co-working stipend to your employees instead. The people who like working from home can continue to do so and the people who like to work from an office can do so too.

People have varying needs. Some people are suited to office life and some people are suited to working from home. And some people like a mixture. Until relatively recently, organisations have had to put everybody in the same environment. Remote working isn’t good because you can work from home per se, it’s good because now the working environment can be tailored to the individual instead of forcing everybody into the same environment that is undoubtedly sub-optimal for a large proportion of the workforce.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by greggman3 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:13AM (#27587924)
a co-working stipend does not help me work with my co-workers who I need to collaborate with and who's back and forth decrease iteration times far below what they are remotely. Instead a co-working stipend just lets me hang out with strangers who are irrelevant to my actual job.

I get that not everyone needs to collaborate a way that requires face to face to be efficient but many do. As a simple example I'd expect a UX designer to be far more efficient to hand their phone to their co-worker and say "try this" instead of on slack "hey, sync to the latest version, oh you're in the middle of something? Okay, stash that, now grab my version, build....several minutes later....okay now navigate to this menu. no not that one. Pick Foo->Bar then scroll down and click the Moo button. Okay now, try it"

Someone will now pipe-in that Figma solves this. Fine, I chose a bad example. In my case it would be passing a game so Figma would not solve it.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by rStar on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:49AM (#27588725)
> Instead a co-working stipend just lets me hang out with strangers who are irrelevant to my actual job.

doesn’t sound like a good use of your time, but for many people, it’s a third option that definitely has it’s pros/cons

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by izolate on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:38PM (#27586989)
I can see what you're getting at, but everything you described can be achieved by joining a coworking space.

It boils down to this: a 100% remote policy doesn't rob you of what you need, but a 0% remote policy robs those of us who prefer WFH from what we need.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by weyland108 on Monday June 21, 2021 @10:05PM (#27587186)
The co-working workspace has security implications.

Also I think the current setup is working to a large extent because everyone is remote and playing field is even. It will be somewhat complicated after half the team is on-site and other half is not.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by rStar on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:53AM (#27588751)
i’ll just continue to work for a company with the ability and desire to deal with those security issues, and whatever other problems my preferred way of working causes, since it makes me a happier and more productive employee. plus, in my experience, when you work from home, you don’t have to deal with an asshole control freak boss, since almost all of those don’t allow work from home in the first place, given a choice. ipso facto, one of the benefits of working from home is the opportunity to work under “better” management.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by nostrebored on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:19PM (#27587575)
This just isn't true. Office culture requires people and regularity. The ability to go and tap someone on the shoulder is priceless.

WFH makes businesses less effective.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by noisy_boy on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:01AM (#27587857)
> The ability to go and tap someone on the shoulder is priceless

Indeed and the annoyance I feel from that while I'm trying to concentrate is matchless.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by etripe on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:42AM (#27590430)
Tapping on the shoulder can mean two things: "riddle me this" and "drop everything because I'm more important". The former can be replaced by a chat app. The latter is a stopgap for a failure to plan and goes with an adhocracy.

If a company became less efficient due to a lack of "drop everything" taps on the shoulder, it wasn't efficient in the first place.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by spoonjim on Monday June 21, 2021 @10:51PM (#27587415)
Nothing "robs" you. Companies make choices, employees do too. There will be a mix of companies offering everything from on-site only to remote-only and if you're skilled enough you will be able to dictate the terms of your employment.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by meh99 on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:03PM (#27587482)
If you’re good enough relative to what test?

I simply do not believe meritocracy can exist.

Our biological sensibilities are too easily confused by concepts we don’t fully grasp, and come on; there is so much rubber stamping and favoritism (even now I know the founder of my company is invited to private sessions in DC to hammer out rules that favor us and we’ve proven nothing).

This forum seems to have too much of a naive and weirdly trusting belief in such subjective and hand wavy ideas when literal reality is offering plenty of evidence to the contrary in the political sections of a newspaper.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by rodgerd on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:32PM (#27587666)
> I think it is important to acknowledge that different people have different lives and want different things.

Absolutely. I've found mostly-remote with some office days works very well for me, personally, and this seems to be new normal in the bank that I work for. There are also times where we want large gatherings, too.

One thing that I feel gets missed around the idea that being in the same building builds collaboration: I personally find the opposite a lot of time. It might make for easy catchups for people in proximity in the building or campus, but it often leads to implicit decision-making by proximity, where people aren't included, even when they should be, if they happen to be on another floor or another building in the same campus.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by electricslpnsld on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:25PM (#27586909)
> The bathrooms

At my first job they were so crunched for space my desk in the open office was about ten feet from the entrance to the men’s bathroom. I got to quickly know everyone’s schedule, and knew I just had to leave my desk at certain times during the day due to certain coworkers… my manager was not happy when I cited that as my reason for quitting a few months in!

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by liveoneggs on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:33PM (#27586956)
I had a similar setup where the bathrooms were in the office area (not in the hallway like normal) and the ladies had a double-door system but the mens was just door -> urinals (minimal walls/splash guards) so it was an all-day wang-fest for my whole row!
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by anitil on Monday June 21, 2021 @10:00PM (#27587156)
> my manager was not happy when I cited that as my reason for quitting a few months in!

If your manager was so unhappy I'm sure they would have been willing to swap desks with you and experience the - uh - ambience ...

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by whoisburbansky on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:37PM (#27586981)
Was your manager unhappy with you or the company?
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by nsonha on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:53AM (#27589415)
Plot twist: unhappy with them for criticizing the manager's private matter
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by cyberlurker on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:27PM (#27586916)
Finally, validation! I hate the bathrooms at my work but everyone thinks I’m crazy when I complain.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by philliphaydon on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:06PM (#27587502)
One of the downsides to Asia is that there’s a small minority of people who use sitting toilets are squatting toilets.

About 7 years ago I worked in a building where the offices all shared a bathroom with several other companies. We would always need to go to the 2nd or 4th floor if we needed to go #2 due to someone on the 3rd floor using the toilet to squat, which resulted in foot prints on the seat and $#!+ on the back of the toilet seat…

Luckily they decided to tear down the building so we were forced to move. But that is the worst experience I’ve had.

So you’re definitely not crazy haha

Edit: nothing wrong with squatting toilets, just using a sitting toilet as a squatting toilet is the issue.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by axaxs on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:24PM (#27587608)
Ah, squatting toilets...reminds me of my first time in Japan. Was waiting to land so I could uh, unload. Finally deplaned, and hurried to the restroom. Saw what looked like a urinal buried sideways into the floor. As a tall person with bad knees, I cried inside and scurried away. It's just not something a person thinks about or assumes, does this country have toilets like mine?

Oddly enough, by my second trip, that same bathroom(I assume, but can't be positive) had at least 2 functional western toilets, bidets and all. First time using one of those, and not what I'd describe as pleasant, but story for another time :).

On another note... in my wife's country many people actually do use western toilets as squatting toilets. People typically have just a typical western bowl, with no tank or seat.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by philliphaydon on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:30PM (#27587659)
I have a bidet. When I eventually move back to NZ I’m gonna make sure my house has one!
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by axaxs on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:34PM (#27587677)
So...gross question. Let's just say I expected a drinking water fountain type thing, and got what felt like an enraged eel trying to find warmth inside me. Is that uh...typical? I've never tried one since.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by philliphaydon on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:38AM (#27588035)
It really depends on the Toilet or Bidet. The house I'm in at the moment has a bidet hose, depending on how much you press the button dictates the pressure of the water.

The Japanese style toilets have a little button, there's 2 versions. The first uses the water pressure to function, so when you press it, the water causes it to come out and spray, these don't have any control, it's dictated by your taps water pressure.

The other is the fancy eletric ones that can go from very basic, to multi adjustment, temperature, self-cleaning, etc.

When I first saw these in Asia I thought they were absolutely stupid and pointless.

But one night I got food poisoning and ended up on the toilet, a bit messy, and i used the bidet to clean myself and...

Ok when I got gastro living in australia, I went to the toilet so many times i made my bum raw with toilet paper that it hurt.

After having food poisoning in Asia and cleaning with the Bidet then just drying off, even tho I went to the toilet many times, I didn't get a sore butt. This convinced me that they are awesome, and I've used ever since.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by noisy_boy on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:08AM (#27587894)
The water pressure isn't the same for all the models so some are gentle cleansers and other could be.. enraged eels. The trick is to start with a light press on the button to gauge the pressure and calibrate from there.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by _ZeD_ on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:54PM (#27587816)
What??? Do you think of "enraged eels" when you whash your hands?
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by axaxs on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:13AM (#27587920)
No, of course not. This was much more invasive than a tap.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by vmception on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:47AM (#27589698)
many have configurable water pressure if they do that
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by looooaway on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:12AM (#27587918)
This sort of thing is why I like to explore the areas around where I work. Health and safety says to go for a short walk every hour or two, anyways.

Sometimes you find a relaxing park. Sometimes you find a stairwell with a pointless top landing where you can hide and do frustration pushups. Sometimes you find a cheap hole-in-the-wall.

And sometimes...sometimes, you find a hidden bathroom.

It's easier with big companies in urban centers, because your badge often lets you wander into a bunch of random downtown buildings.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by rodgerd on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:37PM (#27587712)
It's certainly telling when there's a reorg and after a team moves, it no longer looks like someone let off a shit-bomb in the toilets every day.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by Trias11 on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:38PM (#27586991)
Imagine asking all the nicely dressed people on video zoom/webex call to stand up!

lol

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by ricci_curvature on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:07PM (#27586775)
Don't forget having friends and a social life. Life is so much better now that I can sit in my house all day browsing 4chan.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by jpseawell on Monday June 21, 2021 @11:25PM (#27587614)
I wear khakis and a dress shirt just to put me in the working mood.

No shoes or socks though.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by xwolfi on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:02PM (#27586747)
Remove the commute and all is solved. I pay 4000 USD a month in rent in Hong Kong to sleep near my bank lol
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by thret on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:12PM (#27586818)
There is something glorious about walking five minutes to work and knowing your co-worker spent an hour in traffic. It's like cheating death on a small scale.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by annoyingnoob on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:17PM (#27586853)
When I had this situation I was expected to show up any time, like if the alarm went off or to let a contractor in, etc. I was unofficially on-call for all things office. And blamed if something odd happened after hours.

Walking to work was glorious.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by lmkg on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:16PM (#27586848)
It's literally cheating death, only spread out over a long period of time.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by labster on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:43PM (#27587029)
And by not driving, you cheat death a little bit more on behalf of other people. Less air pollution is good for literally everyone.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by bostonsre on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:42PM (#27587022)
Yea, after dealing with the accidents and traffic seemingly every day on 101, having a short walk to work is just incredibly glorious and results in so much less stress. A nice couple block walk on water to an office in the morning is a pretty great way to start the day.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by smitty1e on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:20PM (#27586875)
My foot commute is 20min, but involves dropping the kids at school on the way. #Winning
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by DevKoala on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:13PM (#27586829)
I was renting an apartment in SF to be near the office and avoid the commute, but it just wasn’t the same. I missed my home and family. Eventually I decided I would arrive to the office at lunch time to avoid rush hour and leave at 8pm. That worked out much better for me.

Now that I am fully remote, nothing will convince to ever set foot in an office again. I just rejected a position worth a raise in the six figures because management couldn’t commit to allow me working full time remote. I make that much extra just working on side projects with the free time I gain by staying at home.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by Seattle3503 on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:21PM (#27586876)
I'm curious how you monetize your side projects.
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by DevKoala on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:27PM (#27586918)
I have a friend who has a huge contract with a manufacturing company that is publicly traded. Whenever I have the time I pick up some tasks from him. It allows me to work on WebGL which is a nice break from the data engineering/systems design work I do for my regular full time employer.

I also have a crypto trading bot, but honestly, I stopped it recently due to the fact I wasn’t ready to deal with the volatility of the last few weeks.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by lostcolony on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:08PM (#27586777)
Not really. I've lived near where I've worked my entire life. The furthest I've lived is about 4 miles, and even then I'd bike 6, just so I could bike along the beach.

I still prefer remote.

Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by Trias11 on Monday June 21, 2021 @09:40PM (#27587000)
I paid $4800 in SF to be 40 min. away
Re:Deloitte tells staff they can work from home forever by vmception on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @05:49AM (#27589705)
boom got'em!

I bet people told you that you had a short "reverse" commute and therefore lucky that it was only 40 minutes each direction!