Hopefully not, US taxpayers should see this aid spent on themselves in their own nation.

It's not "aid." It's fiscal transfer to vassal states (though 75% of it really goes to US corporations' pockets - aid isn't dollars but vouchers to spend on US products at 4x the market price) within the US empire. Just ask any non-voting subject of the empire.

BTW in numbers it's $4B/year - $3B to US firms, $1B to Israel. Our GDP is about $400B. Would we buy our independence for $1B per year, if the US was selling/if the world worked that way? You bet!

(And don't get me wrong, it might be the best empire to be the vassal of for Israel which is too small to be independent. Just let's call it what it is.)

(It could be that for the US taxpayer the empire is a good deal. eg could you print all those dollars and get the entire world to hold them without the empire? You get a nice windfall from this. But again it's between you and your government. Maybe if you called yourself an empire, it would enable more open and productive discussions wrt cost/benefit analysis per vassal state.)

What a shitty cycle.

To do that, it seems like the defense industry needs "stuff to do". Like a muscle, that sector atrophies if left unused. It's counterintuitive, though -- why spend so much money on a glorified Skunk Works project like the F35? Why double down and start producing hundreds of them despite their issues? Because it generates/maintains experience and lessons and keeps the metabolic pathways that turn material into materiel active. If you skipped the extra steps and had the government just sustain the defense industry on welfare while it does nothing right up until we have a massive conflict, things are going to go much more poorly for you.

The military industrial complex will always have a bogeyman ready.

There's no need to funnel it through Israel, which gains more of the benefit than we do.

Israel is also a gem of technological innovation. We probably get the public spending back in NYSE listing fees and trading profits alone.

What a completely depressing world

American problems at home are bad though. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

Besides, Israel's support for gay rights and feminism is hardly universal. Spend some time in an orthodox neighborhood if you don't believe me.

I think you are kicking in open doors here.

But unlike a few kilometers away it won't get you kicked from a rooftop, it will only get you angry looks.

So what does Israel do in return?

The Patriot anti-missile systems were shit before Israeli technology was used to improve them.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting in the future, we'd be grateful. That means thoughtful, substantive comments that engage with curiosity rather than enemies.

Edit: it looks like we've had to warn you about this multiple times before. Please fix this.

Also, for being such a regime.

You don’t even have to scratch the surface. Is Saudi Arabia a freedom loving democracy?

2. "Oh but, what about <X>"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

And by the way I am not anti-semitic, if that is what you were trying to imply with "absurdly selective".

Israel has many high value products to export besides weapons. Israel can enjoy prosperity without having to resort to trading weapons with such regimes.

What do you suggest I do instead?

We should talk about problems when we encounter them. The more specific the better.

Judaism imposes duties on each Jew. Religious duties in the form of commandments.

How about following those commandments? If you say the commandments do not matter then you are saying that as a Jew, Judaism doesn't matter. In that case, you don't need a state don't you?

If you want to be free to practice your religion, do it. But do it properly, not only the parts you like.

It's truly pathetic how openly American polticians will kowtow to israel and even china these days. Whatever they are getting in return must be worth it.

Anyway, I wouldn't personify these countries and assign them motivations. Geopolitics is complicated, and there are many people pulling strings across many nations, complete with complicated rivalries and partnerships. The support for a modern Israeli state in the first place started outside of what is now Israel. So, you can't assume pressure to support Israel all comes from Israel itself, purely in its self-interest.

Are you against the US giving aid to any other country, or just to Israel?

Running a slightly less ridiculous military-industrial complex would free plenty of funds to fix just about any issue there might be in the US (except of course the big one, climate change). Second is having a slightly less ridiculous tax system.

Thankfully, not enough to be politically relevant. Because the alternative is letting the world degrade to the point that we’re shipping that child out to a war.

I think this is exactly what politicians would like you to believe. You should take a look at how the foreign aid budget gets spent in reality.

Ah hem. The Second Amendment would like a word...

There is nothing in theory keeping anyone in the United States from owning or even using military grade munitions. Just paperwork. And all too much at that. If you're going to be seizing property, due process. Your due process you seem to be espousing reads "have use military grade munitions -> seize and prosecute".

Those of us that like to safely own and have things that go boom or have military applications would appreciate it if you'd describe due process as it should be, "prosecute, secure beyond reasonable doubt conviction -> seize property", though even that is open to question as the property to be seized should reflect the crime committed. If felony theft is committed, property should transfer to next of kin, or liquidated with proceeds going to next-of-kin.

Order matters.

Besides which, what is the big deal with Israel anyway? Besides people who read way too much Revelations, and think entirely too much of the United States as a lynchpin in that, I've seen very little to recommend keeping up a military industrial pipeline coffer lining exercise in that part of the world. The U.S. is quite literally being the mother of all enablers in that regard.

But the primary difference between areas within the US borders and areas within Israel's borders is how the consequence materializes.

In the US the expected response would be an investigation, finding the munitions, taking the munition as evidence, finding the owner or user, interviewing people, indicting and convicting the owner, seizing the owners assets or finding the building somehow culpable too, only for the purpose of temporary ownership by the state, not destruction. If something occurred during the investigation or the presence of a law enforcement, the law enforcement may shoot back on the spot.

In Israel, right now the expected response is lobbing a missile at the building and gaslighting everyone that questions that particular approach.

Just wait 10 years until most new cars are electric, and we’ll see whether or not that still holds.

It seems like you just outlined why it is necessary to debate. Think of how many positions used to have overwhelming majority in Congress, only to be overturned after citizens pushed the issue, by publicly debating it when it was unpopular.

I usually skip the stages of grief and go straight to acceptance, and looking at how to make it more tenable.

It's very debatable whether the coalition would even survive that long.

>If the government doesn't stick together long enough, Lapid gets into office sooner

Technically yes, but looking at the distribution of parliament, Lapid won't have the votes to pass much, and would have significant difficulty keeping the seat. Nethanyahu or anyone who'd replace him in Likud would have a decent chance of forming a government without an election.

Probably not. The US supported Israel to keep Iran/Russia in check in the region and frighten the rest. If the US is pulling support, it's probably going to rely on Iran (the legitimate heir?) to run the place. They'll have no incentive to keep propping Israel.

Imo, that's why Netanyahu tried to spark a war with Iran. They went on to make several alliances with Arab countries, in a bid to create a military alliance against Iran. He was wrong, however, in that Arab countries (surprise, Saudia Arabia) was more interested in making peace with Iran than starting an all out war.

For that, Netanyahu tried to spark a conflict and he had the right ammo for this (he knew the guys in Gaza will retaliate). At surface, it looks like Netanyahu hates the Gaza guys (Hamas) and they hate him. In reality, their existence depends on this conflict.

It seems, however, that everyone is willing to move on. There will be peace in the future and also higher oil prices :)

This is an excuse that Jewish in America and Evangelicals use to rationalize broader support from Americans. It is almost as weak as the 2000 year old land claim arguments from some Jewish Nationalists, and weaker than the doomsday prophecies that Evangelicals feel obligated to accelerate at the expense of everyone else so they can ride away on a cloud with Jesus while the planet descends into chaos.

The US has bases in almost every surrounding country of Israel, and literally invaded all the countries that border Iran. It can lob missiles and strike at nuclear facilities in Iran if it wanted to from anywhere. It has the rest of NATO on the European subcontinent to keep Russia in check.

The US can easily tell Israel to pound sand and make good on the supposed idea of aligning with Russia. Nothing of value would be lost.

If it sounds absurd to imagine the fiction where Peru is paying for Israel's defense budget, then it is absurd for the US to be involved too.