I'm assuming six months ago you would have told someone to wear a mask because that's what science says. Now you're ignoring the science to make a statement. Was it lip-service and posturing 6 months ago or is it now? Do you value science or not?
You're telling the anti-mask/anti-vax people that yes it really was just bullshit and it was never really about science.
However, the difference is, by wearing a mask where it might not strictly be necessary, I am choosing to inconvenience myself in a way that does not harm another person in any way. Choosing not to wear a mask where it is necessary puts other people in danger, and risks the overall epidemiological health of the society around you (and in my jurisdiction was also illegal). That’s quite a big difference in my opinion.
The idea that wearing a mask is at the forefront of this issue is laughable.
Furthermore, just as many warned in the early days of the lockdowns that extended lockdown may induce unhealthy behavior—which is evidenced in significantly higher suicide, mental illness, drug abuse, and so on—there are certain to be some undesirable side-effects of vaccinated mask wearing. What those would amount to is not known, but certainly deserves to be explored and expressed.
Why it has been left to the fringe skeptics to dive into these n-th order consequences—some real; some imagined—in the presence of the greatest minds of our times is, quite frankly, deeply disturbing.
It seems the world has transformed everyone into reactionaries, while it should be patently obvious that we should all strive to be rational in these complicated times.
This speaks very poorly for what we've built over millennia, and leaves the lessons of history to floresce in the corners while everyone goes to war with their chosen side.
Most places haven't yet seen increased suicide rates, and certainly not "significantly higher suicide".
Who gets hurt if social structure is affected by the apparent identity of masking? There are plenty of instances of catastrophic social division due to physical differences.
I think your choice should be your own, and based on health and other reasons. But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations.
I'm having difficulty understanding what this comment is implying. Should other peoples' opinions and reactions to wearing a mask (or not wearing a mask) be a factor in one's own individual decision making?
I just answered parent's apparently rhetorical question, "Who gets hurt if I wear a mask?" Their assumption is, "Nobody," but the truth aligns more closely to, "Maybe somebody."
This isn't a calculus I've thought through in depth, but the answer is almost certainly not "nobody."
Edit: Please keep in mind this comment is made during a particularly divisive time in world history, so my answer reflects that context. I'm not being so pedantic as to suggest, "well every action may hurt somebody." Rather, the effects of the choice is uniquely amplified due to our current social strife.
That's fair; I don't doubt that there are isolated, contemporary examples where un-masking would have led to a better situational outcomes.
As far as if "public reaction" should factor into individual choice, my stance is more based in principle than practicality; bending to the will of popular opinion is a strategy that is highly stifling, due to the fickle and stochastic nature of group opinions. I think it's dangerous to suggest that there are any societal circumstances where everyone should just "side with the crowd." Superseding reason with groupthink rarely yields anything but disastrous outcomes, so I believe that if one can tolerate the ridicule and aggression, then they should stand by their principles.
Sure but the fault lies with society, not the individual with the differences (chosen, like masks, or not, like a physical characteristic).
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberal...
It's ridiculous to try to turn that into a claim of hypocrisy and that everything is just politics.
Essentially 6 months ago you somewhat had the moral high ground because science was on your side, but now it's just personal preference.
If you feel safer with a mask, that's fine (it might do some miniscule good). If you wear a mask to show everyone where you fall on the political spectrum, than just own up to the fact that you're being divisive.
In terms of merely making a statement, then the anti-mask option would be something like wearing a shirt or mask with a message about how this whole mask thing is stupid.
The objection to people going maskless 6 months ago is not that they were making a statement, it's that they were endangering people in aggregate.
When you say "Was it lip-service and posturing 6 months ago or is it now? Do you value science or not?", that would only be justified if the science was specifically saying not to wear a mask right now. But that isn't true and has never been true. Wearing an unnecessary mask has always been fine.
Who's doing that?
Remember that, while the CDC is advised and informed by scientists, they are ultimately a public policy agency. The science matters, to be sure, but what matters most is that the best outcome is achieved, based on people's behavior.
I think they're recommending dropping mask requirements now not because it's the best science, but because vaccine demand has been dropping, and they believe that giving people real-world, day-to-day incentives to vaccinate will convince some of the people hesitant to get vaccinated. And I agree with them on that, and I think it's the right move, even if it carries some risk.
Yeah, I think there is some downside to never showing your nose and mouth. Especially when you think of them as more than breathing holes.
I adopted the Asian custom of wearing a surgical mask when feeling under the weather four years ago, for the record. Got a lot of weird looks on the BART, but also some supportive ones from, you guessed it, Asians.
Given the number of women I've seen happy that no one has told them to smile during this pandemic, I guess a lot of folks in the US don't know how to tell when eyes are smiling.
People do take a lot of cues from facial expressions and at least in "the West" we rarely wear face coverings. So there's definitely some (mild?) cost to wearing the mask, too.
I will say this, though -- organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors are terribly misguided.
Which organizations might those be? State and local governments?
At least in the US, there are more than 50 states/territories, hundreds of cities and more than 3,000 counties. Each of which has separate authority for public health issues.
That said, many (perhaps most?) of those entities have been following the CDC guidelines. Those have now changed. As such. it seems likely that many of those 3,000+ entities will change their policy prescriptions.
No, thankfully I think they're probably making mostly good recommendations there. I'm thinking of stuff like outdoor soccer - parents are asked to wear masks in a big open field with no crowds.
If someone wants to continue wearing a mask for a reason with no harmful externalities (e.g. allergies, privacy), respect their personal freedoms and let them.
Then someone showed me the foam...
Not that I'm complaining!
Get a better mask that actually seals around your face.
If I’m going to be in an enclosed space with lots of anti maskers for a longer period of time I use a 3M elastomer mask with replaceable p100 filters. It’s less comfortable though.
Also to be exceptionally clear, if you are wearing an N95 mask and it is fogging your glasses, it is NOT sealing properly. That condensation is coming from air that’s escaping out the top.
KN94 masks with ear loops are rather less effective as they can’t pull tight enough on the face to seal.
It is also a hilarious and catchy song in its own right.
In those places you're almost sending more of a message by wearing a mask.
Man, I'm sorry, but you read like the belligerent one here, judging people from afar. I wear a mask when possible (and will also likely continue to do so, despite being fully vaccinated) but this self-righteous attitude I think is an enormous part of the cultural problem.
I have always tried to follow a blend of cautious common sense and the science here, so my policy throughout the pandemic has always been - Always wear a mask when indoors (other than at home or in my car alone) - Wear a mask outdoors when it's difficult to remain less than 10 (not even 6) feet from other people. If I need to pass someone on a sidewalk, or someone's approaching me at an intersection, I put my mask on. And I make sure to cover my nose. And even with the mask on, I will usually opt to go into the street or otherwise create distance.
Despite this, I have been shouted at by people more than 30 feet away across a street and from people driving cars(!) about walking outdoors without a mask at times, when nobody has been anywhere near me. I'm sorry but this is just asinine. There has to be some time when it's ok to not be wearing a mask when you're not at home. I wear glasses and am otherwise visually impaired (I have an autoimmune disease which inflames my retinas). When I wear a mask, it tends to fog my glasses and make my vision even worse, sometimes dangerously so (I've been nearly hit by bicycles riding on the sidewalks tens of times - you can't hear them coming when they decide to come up behind you on the sidewalk despite the presence of the perfectly good bike lane) If I wore a mask while driving my reduced vision would make me many many times more dangerous than an unvaccinated person not wearing a mask outdoors, and yet I see this behavior all the time - even when the driver is alone in their car!
Furthermore, one of the times I was shouted at, I actually had a painful cut on my face, and wearing the mask aggravated it. I still would wear the mask if I was in a store or actually anywhere near someone outdoors, but that didn't stop someone from berating me from across a four lane street!
I keep seeing these self-righteous claims throughout these threads that "there is no reason not to wear a mask". Frankly I think these folks are mentally lazy - I learned in my first philosophy course that it's dangerous to use any kind of universal quantifier in your reasoning. I also learned that it's better to show empathy if possible, or at least extend the benefit of the doubt, but for some reason this pandemic and the politics seem to have completely shut any nuance and / or compassion off.
On top of that, you admit further down in this thread that you would just choose not to engage someone you didn't know. I'm sorry, but that means that you shouldn't complain about them, then. It doesn't seem like you've given yourself any hope of arriving at a more charitable conclusion than "this person is a belligerent asshole".
Ugh. Apologies for the tone. I'm not anti-mask, but I think this stopped being about the masks a long time ago, and the fact that we can't seem to collectively recognize it is incredibly frustrating.
I certainly sympathize with your experience. I behaved very similarly and got yelled at once or twice for not wearing a mask outside. But at no point was I worried that they were going to pull a gun on me. Meanwhile, people making close to minimum wage with minimal (if any) health benefits had to put up with the anti-mask zealots just so they could pay their rent and keep food on the table.