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Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by golergka on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:18PM (#27109091)
What would you use instead?
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by munk-a on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:30PM (#27109238)
Purchase some hardware with cash and distribute it around the world to tunnel through. Then expose them as public proxy servers (or even Tor nodes) so that a fair amount normie traffic passes through them.

If you seriously feel paranoid about being watched then you'll want to own the hardware you're actually passing through. And I assume that any large organizations that demand this level of invisibility (cartels etc...) have essentially done this - likely locating some of those servers behind armed guards that will protect the physical device.

That said, I think it's unlikely that Tor has been majority compromised at this point, but as it fades from the minds of folks and becomes more and more niche the probability will escalate.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by cyberpunk on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:06PM (#27109578)
I would have paid some homeless guys to get me bunch of SIM cards, use em once, and proxy via some hacked webcams, after cleaning the rest of the malware off em…

I mean. That’s what I uhh, would do if I was doing something dodgy on the internet…

Edit; with a second hand android bought from a pawn shop running nethunter as an ap ofc…

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by v8dev123 on Monday May 10, 2021 @04:43PM (#27110678)
> what I uhh

Send me your address and I uhhh

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by itake on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:46PM (#27109392)
>Purchase some hardware with cash and distribute it around the world to tunnel through.

how do you keep the hardware physically secure? What prevents a gov actor replacing it with their own mitm proxy?

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by rsuelzer on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:54PM (#27110151)
Given the immense barriers to setting up an exit node, I would find it rather surprising if the majority of exit nodes are not already controlled by state actors, either directly or by proxy. My personal opinion is that if anonymity on Tor is to continue, it will be the result of competition for control of the network between opposing states and not altruistic non-profits.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:37PM (#27109931)
Use a VPN and don't do anything that would get you on a terrorist/cybercrime/pedo list in the first place?

There is no safe when it comes to determined state actors.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by yakubin on Monday May 10, 2021 @05:12PM (#27110949)
> don't do anything that would get you on a terrorist/cybercrime/pedo list in the first place?

This is going to be difficult: <https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/07/the-n...>

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Monday May 10, 2021 @07:48PM (#27112409)
That says nothing.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by large on Monday May 10, 2021 @04:59PM (#27110822)
>Use a VPN

Pretty sure that gets you on a list?

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Monday May 10, 2021 @05:01PM (#27110844)
You're pretty sure? It should be easy to find a source for that claim then.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by encryptluks2 on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:37PM (#27109308)
Use an open Wifi hotspot with a spoofed MAC.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by itake on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:44PM (#27109375)
This didn't protect Ross Ulbricht.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by brobinson on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:51PM (#27109457)
Neither did linking his dark web identity to his real life identity via multiple forum posts or his other 1,000 opsec failures.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by xvector on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:04PM (#27109562)
I suspect those “opsec failures” are just parallel construction. The FBI almost certainly used a zero day on him and then waited to see how they could construct a feasible explanation for having identified him from there.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by maybelsyrup on Monday May 10, 2021 @04:25PM (#27110486)
> almost certainly used a zero day on him

I "like" this explanation, but are you going with your gut on that or do you have any concrete signs that point in that direction?

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by xvector on Monday May 10, 2021 @05:46PM (#27111276)
Parallel construction is not new for US intelligence when it comes to solving high-profile crime. We know US intelligence both hoards and uses zero days, especially on users of Tor. As such, we can be reasonably certain that parallel construction is used to capture cybercriminals in high-profile cases, since it immensely simplifies solving the crime to a matter of using the exploit and merely observing for gaps in opsec.

Furthermore, using a zero-day on Ulbricht would be optimal as he is no security researcher. You are unlikely to “burn” a zero-day unless you are using it in a dragnet sort of fashion while a vigilant security researcher is watching.

By definition, it’s hard to find proof of parallel construction. However, former intelligence officials have confirmed its use as a “bedrock technique” for catching criminals [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by maybelsyrup on Monday May 10, 2021 @06:06PM (#27111461)
This is really interesting, and sad. Thanks.

> simplifies solving the crime to a matter of using the exploit and merely observing for gaps in opsec

By this logic, could one get away with a "crime" indefinitely given good enough (perfect?) opsec?

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by xvector on Monday May 10, 2021 @08:23PM (#27112664)
Perhaps, but no one is perfect. Keep in mind that perfect opsec also encompasses physical security+surveillance, where intelligence agencies are much better than this than criminals.

People say that part of Ulbricht’s shitty opsec was that he left his laptop unlocked, but think of this - the FBI was already ready to grab his laptop the very moment he left it alone. Clearly, they knew he was the criminal well beforehand, and were just lying in wait for him to slip up just one single time.

All in all, this is really cool work. I wonder what it would be like to work for the FBI or NSA solving high profile cybercrime. I imagine it would definitely feel more impactful than my current FAANG position, even if the compensation would be lower.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by schoen on Monday May 10, 2021 @10:43PM (#27113635)
> People say that part of Ulbricht’s shitty opsec was that he left his laptop unlocked, but think of this - the FBI was already ready to grab his laptop the very moment he left it alone. Clearly, they knew he was the criminal well beforehand, and were just lying in wait for him to slip up just one single time.

Is there another laptop of his that they physically accessed somehow prior to distracting and arresting him? (I don't understand how someone could think from that story that the laptop seizure played any part in initially identifying him, since it was done by FBI agents in the course of arresting him pursuant to a warrant.)

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by xvector on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @12:04PM (#27119802)
No, the theory is that a zero day was used on Ulbricht and they knew he was guilty for a long time. Things like seizing the laptop was just theater to construct a parallel trail of evidence for the courts.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by schoen on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:29PM (#27120862)
I understand that theory, but I don't understand what leaving his laptop unlocked has to do with it. As the FBI already had a warrant to arrest him when they encountered him in the library, they had already made a probable cause showing to a judge by that point. The probable cause showing isn't the same standard as the "beyond a reasonable doubt" needed for a criminal conviction, but clearly the FBI already believed he was guilty before they seized his laptop, whether or not they accurately told the judge about all of the evidence and evidence-gathering methods that led them to that conclusion.

It's unfortunately entirely possible that they didn't tell the judge about all of it, but it's still not as though seizing his laptop was the event that convinced the FBI that he was guilty, or even that they claimed to be particularly unsure about their suspicions before that.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by hnnnnnnng on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:17PM (#27109684)
I agree with this. They just wait to find a small breadcrumb trail and then use that construct a case. The identifying the suspect is done through hidden means.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by bawolff on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:42PM (#27110008)
Even if that's true, Ross certainly made it easy for them
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by therein on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:57PM (#27109506)
Try public WiFi + spoofed MAC + directional antenna.

What if you live 3 blocks away from a public library but a few floors higher? With direct line of sight and some wireless networking gear?

Would they really try to triangulate the client packets? It is a large leap past "oh he is in the library, let's go find him". You aren't triangulating the AP, you need to logically isolate the packets from the client, calculate their dB and somehow triangulate on just that.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by NaturalPhallacy on Monday May 10, 2021 @04:44PM (#27110699)
>Would they really try to triangulate the client packets? It is a large leap past "oh he is in the library, let's go find him".

This is smart, and a good idea. But it really just adds a step. Once they go to the library and don't find him, they'll start looking for something 'smart'. And doing 'smart' things like this really get the hackles of the feds up because they start thinking exciting things like 'state actor', and "I'll get a promotion out of this".

The best place to hide something is right out in the open. Preferably behind a SEP field.

Not hating on your idea, just exploring it further.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by na85 on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:52PM (#27109465)
Arguably it did protect him, but Ulbricht compromised himself by making several major opsec blunders including linking his personal Gmail address to his pseudonyms.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by encryptluks2 on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:50PM (#27109437)
Because he walked away from his computer and left it unlocked. Wear a hidden bluetooth device or something to lock your computer and use USBGuard if you're that worried.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by bawolff on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:44PM (#27110026)
I feel that, at the point where the fbi is trying to distract you by making out so they could steal your laptop, its already too late and you are very screwed.

Maybe a bluetooth autolocking thing could have delayed the inevitable, but it would just be a delay.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by encryptluks2 on Monday May 10, 2021 @05:47PM (#27111281)
Not really. Wish proper encryption and a USB safe list, once the computer is locked there isn't much they can do.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by bawolff on Monday May 10, 2021 @06:43PM (#27111769)
They can watch you for the rest of your life, interrogate you, etc.

Presumably they acted the way they did because they had reasonable belief that their plan would work. If Ross behaved differently i assume they would have a different plan of action

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by flatiron on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:04PM (#27109561)
IIRC he was still sitting at the computer. They just distracted him to turn around and then they swiped it.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by jandrese on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:40PM (#27109977)
They literally snuck up behind him and swiped it out of his hands. He was seated with his back to the door, one of his many opsec failures.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by encryptluks2 on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:23PM (#27109752)
Regardless, USBGuard and a hidden bluetooth device to automatically lock when it leaves a certain radius would have likely prevented any issues.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by michaelt on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @04:55AM (#27115821)
Ulbricht was arrested in 2013. USBGuard and usbkill were released in 2015.

Tough to do encryptluks2-approved opsec if you have to use tools that don't exist.

Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by encryptluks2 on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @05:05AM (#27115878)
USBGuard is a newer tool, however the functionality has existed through udev or other integrations for some time.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by Analemma_ on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:20PM (#27109119)
I don't really do anything worth hiding from state-level attackers, but if I did I wouldn't do it over the internet at all.
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by gruez on Monday May 10, 2021 @02:28PM (#27109218)
so you'll do it in meatspace where there are witnesses and facial recognition/ALPR cameras everywhere?
Re:Tracking One Year of Malicious Tor Exit Relay Activities ... by vinay_ys on Monday May 10, 2021 @03:05PM (#27109568)
There's one kind of tech that's good enough to protect your privacy from corporations that want to profile your behavior or keep you safe from malicious hackers who want to steal your data by luring you into digital spider nets.

Then there's another kind of tech (and tactics and practices) that could hope to keep you safe when you are targeted by state-level actors in both digital space and meat space.

Tor barely belongs in the former category.