As long as you can find your size. I'm tall and thin, so if I want to buy something as basic as Levi's jeans, I have to go to a ton of stores and have limited choices. Now I just get them on Amazon, problem solved.

This is a problem that should have been solved years ago. You should be able to measure yourself very accurately and thoroughly, keep it on some sort of file that you can share what you need, and then use tools on the online sites to learn exactly how their products will fit.

There's a company called True Fit (https://www.truefit.com/) which attempts to solve this.

True Fit partners with several stores. You go on a store's web site (for example, macys.com), and you tell True Fit about some clothing you already have that fits well (brand, size, style). Based on that, it refers to its database to recommend the best size of the product you're considering now, and it tells you whether it thinks it will be "snug", "true to you", or "loose".

Basically it just formalizes the kind of knowledge that shoppers use about how brand A tends to run small, brand B runs large, brand C is aimed at young people so its shirts are more tailored, brand D is aimed at older people and their shirts are more "generous" in the waist, etc.

Their web site calls it the "Fashion Genome™", which is a "comprehensive, normalized fashion graph".

True fit is more of a conversion boosting tool rather than a tool to help the consumer.

I worked at Levi’s Corp for 3 years and was surprised to learn that clothes have large tolerances in sizes to keep costs down.

True fit says you should select a size based on the size you wear in another brand. That won’t work because no brands have consistent sizing. Even if a brand used extremely tight size tolerances, brands actively size up and down their clothes based on the whims of merchants.

The solution is to just buy 3 sizes of each item you want and select the best fit and return the rest.

> large tolerances in sizes to keep costs down

Yeah, that's the main problem with this. If you're buying higher-end stuff with tighter tolerances, just providing a set of measurements can work. There's a whole industry of tailors in India and Hong Kong who sell made-to-measure dress shirts to Westerners over the internet.

Any links? Need to a get a suit and would love to save.

What happens to the returned items?

How do I actually use this? I have to intentionally seek out brands and stores they've already partnered with?

There's not a directory or anything it seems like.

Yeah, it doesn't seem set up to help you discover retailers where you can actually use it. Their site does have a list of retail client partners (https://www.truefit.com/Partners/Retail-Clients) which gives a starting point.

I tried visiting several sites and got these results:

Works for me: Macy's, J.Crew, JCPenney

Doesn't work: Kohl's, Dockers, Lands' End, Ralph Lauren

In all cases, I picked a random (except for avoiding store brands) men's casual shirt and looked on the details page near where you select a size.

Looks like this is actually a B2B service that would sell it to existing retailers and/or tailers, not necessarily as something you yourself would sign up for.

I have the same dimensions / issues finding jeans. Quality control on Levi's isn't fantastic and I'm always frustrated with how wide the leg openings are. Difficult to find any pants that fit well, really. Someone recommended I just buy jeans that roughly fit, and take them to a tailor. Such a game changer! For $12 I can basically get any pair of pairs to fit perfectly.

yeah, this is a problem i've solved by learning what brands are internally consistent with their sizing. i know my size in Levi's, and as long as they don't suddenly start making 36/32 jeans fit differently than they used to, i'll keep ordering from them without having to worry about fit.

A Levi's "36" today is probably more like 39 inches. In fact, most companies have been "vanity sizing" to make people feel better.

The worst offender is "Old Navy" where a 36" is actually a whopping 41 inches. It seems like men won't buy pants that are labeled over 39 inches, so as sizes go up from 30 inches, the "vanity" excess goes up exponentially.

See: https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-...

How is vanity sizing not false advertising?!

because they don't make any claim that a size 38 is 38 inches.

they used to be, but these days a "size 38" designation doesn't carry any more actual meaning than women's clothing sizes like "size 0"

No one is getting mad or feeling bad about fitting a smaller size than they've earned. It takes a complaint for it to be an issue.

Levi's is one of the worst offenders. There is such a massive sizing variance that I stopped buying them years ago unless I found them in a store.

Yeah, I've had Levi's in front of me where nominally "smaller" sizes of the exact same jeans were visibly bigger. For the life of me I don't understand why measuring jeans to better than an inch is so hard in the 21st century. How is there no incentive for them to fix this? Do they profit from giving people the wrong size?

i think i figured it out. they measure cut sew dye wash. the size changes during the wash, variably depending on the dye and randomness. it would be cost prohibitive to control for this so instead you get size variability which is fine because most people buy in store.

I'm not sure what wash you're referring to, but I'm talking about brand new jeans. Can't they measure whatever they want at the end of manufacture instead of the beginning? It's not like the consumer wears anything but the end product. The error bars are ridiculous.

brand new jeans are washed before you get them. it gives them the texture.

i noticed that a certain jean i buy fit consistently only within a given dye and wash. darker pair or different wash fit differently.

Yeah I get that they're washed, but I don't care if they're washed... can't they just measure something after the wash? Is what I'm asking.

I'm talking about the exact same dye btw. Like the same color, number, everything. Only difference is sizes. I've gotten smaller sizes an inch larger than the "larger" sizes for the exact same jeans. It's ridiculous.

> can't they just measure something after the wash?

of course they can! those jeans cost double.

it’s not a matter of incompetence or don’t care. it’s a matter of production efficiency.

as for otherwise identical jeans being different sizes, that’s also a matter of consistency of the raw material. if you want high consistency it costs more. consumers aren’t willing to bear that cost.

Maybe they came out of different factories?

I gave up on pants sizes. You really have to go there and there is no system to it. Sometimes the numbers get bigger, sometimes smaller.

With shoes there is at least consistency because it seems like it became a penis enlargement thing there. On some brands my size grew from 43 to 47 in the recent years.

heh. i guess i knew my size in Levis, it's been more than a few years since i actually bought a pair of their pants.

Guy jeans are real easy because those numbers are actual measurements. Woman's jeans just change that to a single number that changes through the years. Uhg, so annoying.

No they aren't. I got two pairs of jeans from the same (house) brand in the same store at the same time. I tried on one of them in the store, and naively assumed the other would fit too.

There was a 5 cm (2 inch) difference.

I don't think she was implying that the sizes are always correct. But they are actual dimensions, i.e. inches. As opposed to "size 8", which is relatively meaningless.

What really pisses me off too is the size drifts to make you think you're going down pant sizes. So every so years you need to try clothes on again to get your new number.

Pair that with covid not letting you try things on and it just plain sucks. Sometimes I have to try shotgunning it so I'm not making 3 trips to the store just to try a new number.

The inseam is but the waist usually isn’t. It’s just standardized between brands much more than women’s jeans.

Also stores offer more services. When I buy a pair of jeans the person in the store will adjust the length so the jeans fit my odd lenght. I bought a watch yesterday and it cost me $60 more in store than online, but in the store they helped me change change the size and if I have issues with it I can drop it of in the store and they will send it for repairs. Just more convinient for me than figuring out how to safely submit it myself.

Plenty of online stores let to order stuff to fit them and return what doesn't fit.

who wants to return stuff

Most make it super easy. I think Amazon even includes a return label just in case. Waaay better than driving to a store with perfume masking stink, wait in line for fitting rooms, wait in line to pay. So many cons to going in store… most stores are stink boxes.

YES this. Cheap purfume is everywhere these days. I blame AXE commercials - because now men are wearing perfume more than women ever did.

point was that for clothing you can avoid returns by trying it on first

The real issue is: do you want to travel somewhere to try it on, or do you want to try it on in the comfort of your own home?

It's very subjective but personally, I enjoy going shopping for clothes. Unless I can't find the item in my city.

Stuff like electronics is different. Then I don't care about seeing and feeling the product beforehand. Instead I value that stuff is easy to findz search, price and availability. Though I still but stuff locally because I don't want to wait for shipping

To the store? Not me.

With a free UPS pickup because it was included with the purchase? Me.

i don’t buy clothes online but in the rare event i do i buy from amazon and super high end retailers where you just send it back without calling.

i order 2-3 sizes and send back the ones that don’t fit.

convenience of online with just the added small bump of a trip to the post office or UPS.

You can try them on in the local store and then buy the same size online. Works wonders for some products like brand sneakers or jeans.

Works worse when the store closes because you don’t buy stuff there.

I imagine a future in which brick and mortar stores offer the same prices as online (without having to price match), but charge an entry fee for the service of trying stuff on/out.

Won't happen until enough brick and mortar stores close that the remaining ones can get away with it, though.

FYI, things like jeans can have a lot of size variability between seemingly identical pairs (same brand, model, and nominal size).

My understanding is that this is because the denim is stacked and then die cut in the factory. Since denim is highly deformable, the cut outs from the top of the stack are not the same size as the cut out from the bottom of the stack. And this can lead to considerable size variance within the "same" pairs of pants.

That's why it's a good idea to try on two pairs of the exact "same" pants if the fit is close, but not quite right. YMMV.

I've only found differences for pants bought in different years.

If I buy two of the same pair, the match each other throughout their lifespan.

Interesting. I've noticed about a half size difference in both waist and leg length on one occasion. One pair didn't fit but it's twin was perfect. \_(ツ)_/

A lot of stores have a price match even for online prices to keep you from doing this. So if you're so cheap to do this, then you could at least reward the local store for providing you a service rather than cheating them out of a sale.

Agreed. Doesn't anyone go out in their neighbourhood anymore. What's with wanting everything to come to you. I like going out and know the names of the bar managers and store staff at the places I shop....

I'm assuming you mean when there's not a global pandemic

Kohls solves this by giving you 120 day returns so I disagree. Plus you don't have to sort through everything and check the prices in store. Just wait for it to show up, try it out. Keep it if it's good, ditch it if it's not.

You have to wait for shipping, package the return, etc. That doesn't seem as convenient as trying on in the store, even with the added burden of travel to the store and sifting through sizes.

Many online retailers have UPS pickup as part of the service. Amazon for sure, but I’ve used apps from clothing stores directly and some provided the option.

Unfortunately that was a while ago and I don’t have the apps installed to know which it was.

“Going shopping” is an asinine use of my time.

I don't know of any instance where my fashion style or an outfit needs to be fulfilled as fast as a fast food item in the drive through. Plus, I don't get why I got downvoted for posting an opinion on something that isn't even breaking any rules or coming off as any way negative or flaming.

I think it's pretty common for any clothing retailer, but I think the only people who don't mind the experience are people willing to drop hundreds of dollars at a time to buy many different things and then return most of it. I'd rather just go to a store and not have to front the money for anything I'm on the fence about.