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Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by foepys on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:00PM (#26918563)
This shouldn't surprise anybody. Those are used for work like farms and are tax deductible.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by jackson1442 on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:41PM (#26918979)
Anyone who's driven on a highway in Texas knows this is likely untrue, at least for most F150 owners. I see a shocking number of pristine, washed and waxed F150s every single day when I'm driving. Those and Ram 1500s dominate the roads here.

I don't even live in a rural area. I live in DFW.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by hourislate on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:37PM (#26919505)
I live in DFW also and you are correct. I'd take a guess that 80% of F150 owners live in a quiet suburban neighborhood and have never used the truck bed. What really is insane is the folks like a neighbor down the street who has an F250 Diesel Monster truck that has never seen any off road action except the time he drove on his grass backing out of the driveway. Same with all the Jeeps with oversized tires and 12k in tricked out off road gear, driven by soccer moms. I suppose it's some kind of status symbol like all the old farts buying Harley's and pretending they are some kind of bikers...shame they destroyed the brand.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by jacquesm on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:00PM (#26919699)
> like all the old farts buying Harley's and pretending they are some kind of bikers...shame they destroyed the brand

Actually, they kept the brand alive by buying the product.

Without those people they'd have died long ago.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by IgorPartola on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:32PM (#26920503)
You are correct. This very entertaining 11 minute video from Fortnine (still one of the best channels on YouTube) does a great job explaining exactly how HD wound up where they are today: https://youtu.be/EOwxxsPaogY
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by aaronbrethorst on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:09PM (#26919776)
Sounds kind of like Leica to me: orthodontists running around Africa or Asia pretending to be Steve McCurry with $11,000 'Safari' cameras destroyed the brand for me. Yeah, sure, the company is still technically alive, but at what cost?

(and lest you think I'm joking: https://www.dpreview.com/news/9864312105/leica-releases-limi...)

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by Ma8ee on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:10PM (#26921620)
Are the cameras not good anymore? Or is it that the “wrong people“ are using their products that bothers you? If it is the latter, then you are just trying to buy an identity through brands, and you are as much part of the problem.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by imwillofficial on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:40PM (#26921788)
Leica glass is still top notch. GP is just making some weird status thing out of it.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by petre on Saturday April 24, 2021 @12:01AM (#26922153)
Then just buy the M43 version?
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by aaronbrethorst on Saturday April 24, 2021 @02:39AM (#26922760)
I prefer the APS-C version.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by aaronbrethorst on Saturday April 24, 2021 @02:29AM (#26922717)
Leica glass is great. Leica cameras are great. I wish the company would focus on turning out high quality products that are meant to be used to create photographs, as opposed to turning out the camera equivalent of a Birkin bag.

And I say this as someone who has previously owned and shot with a Leica M6 and currently owns and shoots with a Leica IIIf.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by sudosysgen on Saturday April 24, 2021 @04:27AM (#26923288)
The only good thing about Leica cameras is the handling, arguably and subjectively. They are behind in every single other respect. Leica lenses are good, though.

Couple being sub-par with being much more expensive and you get something that is moreso useful for image than as a tool.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by tshaddox on Friday April 23, 2021 @11:53PM (#26922119)
The same thing is true of guitar manufacturers and probably most other manufacturers of music gear.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by hellbannedguy on Saturday April 24, 2021 @01:40AM (#26922534)
The only upside with the rediculious "Live to Ride", or whatever rediculious marketing slogans they use is most used Harley's are bringing 1/2 of what they were in the nineties.

And it's a buyers market.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by hourislate on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:40PM (#26921000)
>Actually, they kept the brand alive by buying the product. >Without those people they'd have died long ago.

I disagree, the Company was founded in 1903 and was did well into the 90's and then the 50 plus crowd decided to be some kind of poser biker gang type and destroyed the brand. Not very different than what happened to the Corvette and all the 6o plus folks buying them the last 20 years.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by imwillofficial on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:41PM (#26921794)
Wrong, the brand hung on and is dying out with boomers. Everyone knows that the younger kids get crotch rockets. It wasn’t the hold people that ruined the brand, it was the brand marketing to Boomers for shortsighted gains. Harleys are for Boomers. Harley made sure that was the message. Now they pay for it.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by nyolfen on Saturday April 24, 2021 @12:17AM (#26922219)
charging 30k for a motorcycle didn't help
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by sudosysgen on Saturday April 24, 2021 @04:29AM (#26923301)
Made all the worse than the 30k motorcycle is slower and handles worse than a 13k motorcycle.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by imwillofficial on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:38AM (#26925140)
Not to mention breaking down constantly.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by rudedogg on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:32PM (#26921737)
What did these people do to the brand image? I guess I don't understand what it was like before this happened.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by hourislate on Friday April 23, 2021 @11:16PM (#26921959)
Harley's were synonymous with Motorcycle Gangs (Ex: Hells Angels, etc) or with young cool men (18+).

All of a sudden in the 90's a lot of these 40-60 year olds started to try and recapture their youth or that coolness they never had. They started buying Harley's and dressing in Leather and making these ridiculous club patches and driving around revving their motorcycles everywhere. It was so cringe that you actually felt ashamed for them.

Here is a good clip from South Park that kind of sums it all up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday April 24, 2021 @01:02AM (#26922374)
They installed a CEO who didn't know how to ride a motorcycle but he could make tshirts move off the shelves.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by rswail on Saturday April 24, 2021 @02:57AM (#26922843)
Producing crappy, noisy, stupidly big, and overpriced products is what destroyed the brand.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by macintux on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:28PM (#26920479)
> driven by soccer moms

I’d really like to get away from this phrase.

Some of the most avid off-roading Jeepers I know are women. And mothers. And for all I know they take their kids to soccer.

“Soccer moms” is a terrible phrase.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by jedberg on Friday April 23, 2021 @07:56PM (#26920687)
I agree with you, but the problem is, there is no suitable replacement. When someone says, "soccer mom", you know exactly what they mean. And there is no phrase like it.

Just like the phrase "Indian giver". That one is just straight up racist and I will never use it, but sadly I haven't found a substitute for it either. "Someone who gives a gift and then takes it back" just doesn't roll off the tongue...

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by macintux on Friday April 23, 2021 @08:00PM (#26920707)
Since I started realizing how sexist it sounds to me, I’ve not found a need to use it, other than gatekeeping, of which I’m also not fond.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by jl6 on Saturday April 24, 2021 @09:55AM (#26924853)
I think it’s nearly always better to avoid using personality labels entirely.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by rswail on Saturday April 24, 2021 @02:55AM (#26922824)
"Suburban parent" doesn't have the same ring to it. I've also heard the term "Mum's taxi" in Australia.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by mantas on Saturday April 24, 2021 @05:03AM (#26923460)
Mommybus
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by ganafagol on Saturday April 24, 2021 @02:55AM (#26922828)
Isn't that insanely inconvenient? It takes so much more space, needs so much more fuel, is so much more bulky to drive .. is that bit of "status" actually worth it?

Besides, even if you haul sth bigger 2x a year, renting a little trailer of the right size is really a no-brainer. That's what I do.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by vladvasiliu on Saturday April 24, 2021 @03:20AM (#26922969)
> Isn't that insanely inconvenient? It takes so much more space, needs so much more fuel, is so much more bulky to drive .. is that bit of "status" actually worth it?

I'm wondering the same thing, especially since I see more and more of those trucks in Paris, France. Now I've never been to the US, but one thing with European cities is that there are a lot of old, small streets. We also never really had big cars like in the US, so parking spots, etc, are tiny for those cars. Hell, I have an older C-class coupé and it barely fits in street parking spots.

We also have our share of off-road vehicles that have probably never left Paris, seeing how they have huge rims with low tires. But I guess since the streets are in a horrible shape and getting worse, an off-road vehicle may make some sense.

However, I guess that's the whole point of "status". Something that's practical and affordable (financially or otherwise) for everyone can't confer status.

So when it comes to status-seeking, those metrics being outrageous is actually a feature, not a bug.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday April 24, 2021 @03:58AM (#26923141)
>especially since I see more and more of those trucks in Paris, France

Yep, this trend exploded almost everywhere in Europe and I think I found the answer to why. Lots of my male colleagues at work (devs in Europe) are married and have kids on the way and when discussions came at lunchtime about buying a new family car for taking the kids places it seemed like the choice is always a SUV. Whenever I ask them why a SUV, even though they usually prefer sleek sedans, the answer is always "my wife/girlfriend says she feels safer in a big, tall car", which mostly makes sense as throughout history, females' reproductive and nesting choices have had a major impact on shaping male behavior and various aspects of society like real-estate and now car choices.

It's sad that this kickstarted what is basically an arms race on the road since nobody feels safe anymore driving their kids in the traditional European compact car when everyone else is now in big heavy SUVs with poor visibility and easily distracted by their phones or infotainment touch-screens so this fear drives them to one-up their "competition" with bigger and heavier cars to make sure their kids have a perceived higher safety in case on an accident.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by mantas on Saturday April 24, 2021 @05:10AM (#26923495)
Another thing is today's compact cars are getting ridiculously low. I don't want SUV, but I want to drive on crappy gravel roads with confidence and park close to curb without scratching bottom of the bumper. Regular cars used to allow that 2 decades ago. Now I'll need a „raised“ car for that :(
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday April 24, 2021 @05:18AM (#26923520)
That's for fuel efficiency reasons. Cars lower to the ground get much better mileage at highway speeds since they have less aerodynamic drag.

And it's not just compact cars, modern SUVs, except the ones destined for workhorse off-roading, are also lower to the ground than they were 20 or so years ago since they never leave the city/highway anyway.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by mantas on Saturday April 24, 2021 @01:48PM (#26926818)
Yup. And then many people opt in for SUV to get back to classic ride height. Which is kinda funny.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by osigurdson on Saturday April 24, 2021 @12:14AM (#26922202)
Why such concern about people owning things that they may not truly need? I'd say it is a bit of a slippery slope. Many things are not truly needed.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by Pxtl on Saturday April 24, 2021 @12:36AM (#26922269)
Large utility vehicles like pickups are, by dint of their mass, their high centres, and their poorer visibility, dangerous to other people on the road.

They also release a large amount of carbon into the air.

So yes, their use as a recreational or status symbol should be discouraged.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday April 24, 2021 @01:04AM (#26922384)
I have an older Ford Ranger. It is only 300 lbs heavier than the heaviest Prius models. Put a pair of super sized Americans in there and their gross weight is more than my dangerously heavy vehicle.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by djrobstep on Saturday April 24, 2021 @12:34AM (#26922263)
A slippery slope to what? Cutting down on pointless consumption and needless environmental damage?
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by osigurdson on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:38AM (#26940232)
My point is the discussion should be entirely about carbon footprint, not whether CO2 emitting processes or machines (in this case large vehicles) are truly "needed".
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by georgeecollins on Friday April 23, 2021 @10:00PM (#26921569)
Surprise! People buy cars that are not functional but aspirational. Can we add: - SUVs that are are really just wagons or hatchback with big tires. - Sports cars that will never see a track and couldn't possibly be driven safely at half their top speed. - Trucks with reinforced bumpers, headlamps and gas cans so that they are ready for Baja or more likely Target. - Your BMW or Mercedes that convinces me you are really rich because you can afford a lease or a 72 month loan.

This is human nature. Wanting more than you need is actually important to capitalism in countries as rich as the U.S. so I cut people a break.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by jackson1442 on Saturday April 24, 2021 @05:12AM (#26923502)
I give SUV drivers a bit of merit. Many (most?) come with a third row or at least the option for one so they are the most practical way to carry around up to 8 people at once safely.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by grosswait on Saturday April 24, 2021 @08:40AM (#26924463)
Minivans are the most practical for this purpose. The third row seat in most suvs are for children at best.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by jackson1442 on Sunday April 25, 2021 @01:37PM (#26934637)
As a former child, I can attest to this fact as I have ridden (rode?) in the back of an SUV many times. This is a great value-add as most children cannot drive themselves.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by i_have_an_idea on Saturday April 24, 2021 @01:19AM (#26922454)
That does not change the fact that they are tax deductible.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by abfan1127 on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:09PM (#26918662)
I'd bet a ton that most F150s never see dirt. I'd also bet that most F150s see >5 year car loans.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by numo16 on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:43PM (#26918990)
I would side with you on this bet. Lots of brodozer and parking lot princess F-150s up here in Michigan suburbs.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by abfan1127 on Friday April 23, 2021 @04:46PM (#26919018)
tons of pavement princesses here in AZ.
Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by acomjean on Friday April 23, 2021 @05:59PM (#26919697)
F150 was the minimum truck when I worked in landfill construction in the Northeast and NY. They’re decent on the site dirt roads. But they ride hard and I found the handling on the road pretty bad.

They’re not popular here. Except for those that need them. (Maybe RWD and light tail and snow.. ). SUVs are it here.

I was surprised how much of the rest of the rural US uses trucks as a day to day vehicle.

Re:Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4 by TulliusCicero on Friday April 23, 2021 @06:22PM (#26919889)
You're kidding yourself if you think most of the buyers for these actually need a pickup truck.

I lived in Bama for a couple years and everybody and their brother had a pickup.